Parking charge notice for going to work (hospital)

justpassingthrough24 · 13 September 2017 at 12:29PM

Hi all, I'm a doctor and was working a night shift in my A&E department. I don't own a permit as I live fairly close but for night shifts I make use of the free patient parking from 8pm-8am, which comes with a 20minute grace period. This means I can park there from 7.40pm onwards. Myself and many of my colleagues have done this for the last year. However a month ago I did this, and around 1 week ago I received a parking charge notice of £100 (£50 if I pay within 2 weeks, which I won't).

I'm a little worried as I hadn't been online to look through the advice given on these forums, and I went straight ahead and appealed the decision through Parking Eye. I also named myself as the driver (now I know that I shouldn't have), didn't use a template on my appeal and wrote about 3 lines saying I was under pressure to reach my shift and that there was nothing wrong with my parking, having done it many times before.

I have also emailed the car parking office at the hospital who wanted me to confirm where I parked, which I have done and am waiting for them to reply.

I received an email from PE today saying they were "reviewing the matter and will contact me shortly". I know this appeal will fail, so I am gearing myself up for what comes next. I'm aware I may have done a few things wrong as I acted on impulse and wanted to get the appeal in ASAP when I really should've browsed these forums first.

I know I haven't done anything wrong here. I entered the car park at 7.46pm and left at 6.38am. But if this does go to court, having named myself as the driver I'm worried how this will affect my career, as any black mark on our record stays with us however small it is.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Alter_ego · 13 September 2017 at 12:32PM

I think any grace period is at the end rather than beginning

Quentin · 13 September 2017 at 12:35PM

Everyone is politely asked to read the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread.

Go there now and read up on what happens next for each of the stages these things go through.

Your next step will be a popla appeal assuming your initial appeal fails and you can't get the employer to cancel it

(No doctor has had their career blighted for getting a parking charge notice!)

Umkomaas · 13 September 2017 at 12:45PM

But if this does go to court, having named myself as the driver I'm worried how this will affect my career, as any black mark on our record stays with us however small it is.

It's not a Magistrates Court (criminal cases) that will be involved, this would be a simple civil case in a county court near to you - no wigs, no gowns, no jury, just you, the judge (almost always in civvies) and a gun-for-hire local legal representing PE. PE will come nowhere near a courtroom - just in case you and/or the judge ask too many awkward questions of them!

It's simply a case of them saying you owe them £50, and here's why, you saying no I don't, and here's why. The judge decides which way it falls. If it's against you, you pay up by the date the judge decides, that's it nothing recorded, no credit rating impact - nothing. And importantly, it will have no impact in your career, why, because no one will know.

But honestly, you are running too far ahead of this - let's see how your initial appeal to PE goes (ok, you've identified yourself as the driver, but it's not fatal - not even ICU or HDU

) and what your parking department will come up with.

Keep us informed of progress and we'll help you through it. Trust me, I'm a ........

justpassingthrough24 · 13 September 2017 at 12:53PM

Thank you for all the replies.

Here's what it says on the hospital website: "The car parking system has a grace period designed to ensure that you are not unfairly charged for the time spent finding a parking space or if you are just quickly dropping off or collecting from the site. This grace period is 20 minutes. If you are entering and leaving the site within 20 minutes then no charges will be applicable, if you are on site for 1h 20 minutes you will need to pay for 1 hour etc."

That covers me for the time between 7.46pm - 8pm right? I mean it's never been an issue before and I've been parking from 7.40pm for over a year now!

Umkomaas, thank you! I'm definitely jumping ahead, it's in my nature to think the worst

I will post once I get any updates, thank you all again.

Umkomaas · 13 September 2017 at 1:30PM

That covers me for the time between 7.46pm - 8pm right? I mean it's never been an issue before and I've been parking from 7.40pm for over a year now!

This is one that you must argue with the hospital. There are few hard and fast rules that are nationally recognised by an unregulated, often out-of-control skimdustry whose only motivation and sustenance is money - yours and mine!

There has always been a very grey area around utilising a grace period (during charged parking time) and running that to conjoin with an extended free time. Yours appears to be a classic case. PE will no doubt have (now) interpreted that these are very separate parking sessions, not allowing one to extend into the other to form a single period.

You will need some photos of the signage on site to check whether there is any warning about these circumstances. If the PE signage is silent on these and you have photos of the signage put up by the hospital confirming this 20 minute period, then you can argue 'contra proferentem' where something in a contract (that's what the signage is, a contract) is unclear or contradictory, it should be interpreted in favour of the consumer.

But, at this stage, the hospital is key in getting this cancelled. Good luck.

Umkomaas · 13 September 2017 at 1:33PM

Umkomaas, thank you! I'm definitely jumping ahead, it's in my nature to think the worst

Oh dear, I don't think I'd want a prognosis from you. :rotfl:

justpassingthrough24 · 13 September 2017 at 6:29PM

From the above, what are my chances of winning at POPLA?

Firstly I know I may have shot myself in the foot by naming myself as the driver and my initial appeal to PE was very poor as I hadn’t thought to browse online and find forums like this one for advice.

The car parking office at my hospital say I shouldn’t have parked in patient parking, even if this was overnight and the bays were empty, and staff parking does not have free parking. They are also arguing the 20 minute grace period despite what it says on the website and it not causing any problems before.

Do I have an argument if I say I had parked like this many times before and not been fined, including the grace period? The only problem is I don’t know how to prove this. And I really don’t have any other arguments other than I was a “genuine customer” wanting to get to work and do some good.

I ask because I’m considering just paying £50 rather than the £100 once the 2 week period is over. I’m quite short of funds at the moment and have a lot of stress going on as it is. Having done a few hours of reading I don’t see this being a simple process and if I don’t have much grounds to win an appeal I’d rather just pay the discounted £50 before my 2 week period is up and save myself the undue stress. Is this a good idea or do I have much else to go on?

Thanks again for any advice.

Umkomaas · 13 September 2017 at 6:48PM

Do I have an argument if I say I had parked like this many times before and not been fined, including the grace period? The only problem is I don’t know how to prove this. And I really don’t have any other arguments other than I was a “genuine customer” wanting to get to work and do some good.

Won't work for you. Mitigation has no part to play.

I often question myself as to what I think ParkingEye's response would be if they were faced with the dilemma, 'stop a doctor parking by threat of penalty, and a patient dies' or 'agree a dispensation and a patient lives'. I rather suspect I get the answer right every time - 'we regret that mitigating circumstances cannot considered'!

You can win this at POPLA by using the appeal templates from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post # 3. They're long, detailed with plenty of case history. They're there for you to copy and paste the relevant ones into your POPLA appeal. Obviously you won't be able to use the 'No Keeper Liability' one as you've revealed the driver. But PE hate having to deal with all the points raised in the forum appeal templates - and often withdraw their claim once they see this type of POPLA appeal. They are particularly vulnerable when required to produce a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of their contract with the landowner (the hospital trust). They seem to be extremely 'shy' in showing what has been agreed. If they don't/won't show it to you via your POPLA appeal - you win!

All pretty easy really with a couple of hours input from you to read and piece together. Let us have a look at it in draft form for critique and fine tuning.

HTH

Coupon-mad · 13 September 2017 at 6:58PM

I think you could win this at POPLA, most cases still are won. But it's not about mitigation, it's about trashing their contract terms, etc. Most Hospitals are also full of signs and different car parks so even for someone who works there, you can say it's a minefield and you relied upon the words from the Hospital explaining what staff can and cannot do.

Your point about the 20 minutes is supported by the email explaining it. If you can park for 1hr 20 mins and pay for one hour, then it follows that you can park overnight using the 'free from 8pm' rule, from 7.45pm.

Not that POPLA Assessors are lawyers (and nor am I) but you could argue that the terms as drafted, and within the contract confirmed by the Hospital themselves, are clearly on your side here and at worst are ambiguous. It is trite law that any ambiguity in terms in a consumer contract MUST be interpreted in the way that most favours the consumer.

Quentin · 13 September 2017 at 7:44PM

justpassingthrough24 wrote: »

I ask because I’m considering just paying £50 rather than the £100 once the 2 week period is over. I’m quite short of funds at the moment .......I’d rather just pay the discounted £50 before my 2 week period is up and save myself the undue stress....
.

Surely your impecunity overrides everything! Not much stress (for a doctor) involved in constructing a popla appeal!

Why pay out anything to them when the advice you are getting is this is winnable at popla stage?

Parking charge notice for going to work (hospital)

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