Loan for Property Purchase (not a mortgage)

Jsnb88 · 18 October 2017 at 4:23PM

I wouldn’t worry to much about the CIFAS marker, the loan was declined because you pay rent, but it is not unlawful to do home improvements on homes you rent, the loan was declined because of there own reasons, not because they suspected you of trying to take a loan out fraudulently

Jimmy_Boy · 19 October 2017 at 1:12AM

Thanks for your reply Jsnb88, puts my mind at ease a little.

Herzlos · 19 October 2017 at 8:16AM

Jimmy_Boy wrote: »

2. The idea of a loan is more appealing to me due to being able to get it on a shorter term (mortgage is minimum of 5 years I believe), and the loan not being secured against my property. Am I right in thinking that this is a better option for me (if I can get a loan, not a mortgage)

Thanks in advance.

Why not just get a 5 year mortgage and pay it off early? If you take one on the Standard Variable Rate there won't be an overpayment fee. Or take out a 2 year fixed rate than have the last 6 months on SVR to get a better rate.

Candyapple · 19 October 2017 at 12:57PM

Jsnb88 wrote: »

I wouldn’t worry to much about the CIFAS marker, the loan was declined because you pay rent, but it is not unlawful to do home improvements on homes you rent, the loan was declined because of there own reasons, not because they suspected you of trying to take a loan out fraudulently

Don't be so sure of yourself and give false hope.

From their own website for home improvement loans:
https://www.barclays.co.uk/loans/home-improvement-loan/

You can use your loan for almost anything, apart from:

Business reasons
Investments, including buying stocks and shares
Timeshares
Purchasing property (home improvements are fine)
Gambling-related expenses
Repaying CCJs (county court judgments)
A purchase made by combining this loan with any others

Er when has anyone who is renting ever taken out a loan for "home improvements"? They're not stupid you know. It's made worse for the OP because they clearly declined him on the grounds that he was paying rent.

Jimmy_Boy wrote: »

I have already made an application with my bank (Barclays) for a 'Home Improvements' loan as advised by my banks personal advisor (on 09/10/2017). This was not automatically approved and had to be sent off for approval. The loan was declined as Barclays can see I am making rent payments, and would not approve a loan for £9,000 for home improvements on a rented property.

Jimmy_Boy wrote: »

I'm trying to fully understand the potential consequences... are you saying

A) I may already have a CIFAS marker due to this
Applying for another loan elsewhere will give me a CIFAS marker, but currently I should be ok
C) I should currently be ok, and applying for a mortgage should not trigger a CIFAS marker, as this is the correct type of borrowing for the purpose.

I'm hoping it's C. Pretty peed off to be honest now.

A) Yes could very well be. Where you made an application for a home improvement loan, that specific product and not just their general loans, and it was manually sent for review to their underwriters, they could clearly see that you pay rent hence the decline. So you have lied on the application. That's a Category 4 marker right there: Application Fraud (Facility Refused) - Use of a name reasonably believed to be genuine, but with one or more material falsehoods in personal details or other relevant information -; the facility was refused.

Regardless of the "personal advisor" making the application and advising you to do so, you can guarantee that if you did have a CIFAS marker due to this, they would deny all liability.

Again, yes there is a possibility. Every time you make an application for credit, all the details you enter are recorded on fraud systems to check for any inconsistencies with future applications. So where you have made an application in Sept 2017 for a home improvement loan for £9k, assuming you made one in Oct 2017 for a car loan for £9k except this time around you have stated that you are private renting instead of being a homeowner, that will be flagged in the background the second you press 'apply' and the credit check happens so your application would be referred again and likely declined and it's down to the lender's policy whether they let CIFAS know.

C) Again, yes there is a possibility you could be ok and managed to dodge getting a marker.

The only way you'll find out for sure is to send a SAR to CIFAS, Synetics and NH and wait for their results.

It's one of the reasons why I said you should have complained about this person who advised you the first time around in your previous thread rather than go back to them again for more poor "advice".

Jimmy_Boy · 19 October 2017 at 2:03PM

Candyapple wrote: »

Don't be so sure of yourself and give false hope.

Regardless of the "personal advisor" making the application and advising you to do so, you can guarantee that if you did have a CIFAS marker due to this, they would deny all liability.

I was thinking about this last night, and if it comes to it, trying to get some evidence to back up that I was only following the advice of my personal advisor, to have something to work with for removing a CIFAS marker.

Option 1 - Sending my personal advisor an e-mail, worded in such a word that doesn't cause alarm to him, but also worded in a way that he would hopefully reply admitting that he advised me to do so.

Option 2 - The order of events were - 1) Applied for loan, 2) Sent off for approval, 3) Declined. Now, the potentially interesting part is, the personal advisor rang me to tell me that the loan had been declined, and he mentioned something about 'coming clean' that it was for a property purchase, and that he had passed my details on to a mortgage advisor.

The question in my mind is, where / who did he 'come clean' to, as, in my mind this is a confession of knowingly mis-advising / mis-selling.

One argument I could make is, I was advised to take a loan with advisor knowing this was for a property purchase, and without any interaction from me, after the loan was declined, he sorted everything with regards to arranging a mortgage advisor to contact me - in other words, in order for him to do that without any input from me, that would show he was fully aware of the fact this loan was for a property purchase.

Thanks.

Jimmy_Boy · 19 October 2017 at 9:04PM

So... I'm starting to freak out about this a little, and am unsure what steps to take next. I don't want to inadvertently do something which makes the situation worse.

The key thing is, I'm not sure if a CIFAS marker is immediate or applied the following month, and what affect it has on any existing credit / new credit if CIFAS marker is applied after credit granted.

I have the following going through my head, and am trying to make an informed decision.

1. CIFAS Marker Possibilities

A. Immediate Marker placed on record, and already visible to lenders

B. Marker will be placed on record / visible to lenders next month

C. No Marker

D. No Marker currently, but further applications may result in a marker

2. Timelines

A. Applied for 'Home Improvements' Loan on 09/10/2017 - was declined.

B. After loan declined, Person directed to speak to me about a mortgage (at Barclays) went on annual leave yesterday, won't be back till 25/10/2017, so don't know how soon I could apply for a loan with them (may not be till following month). Nothing stopping me from applying elsewhere.

C. I have to be in a position where the money is available to me for purchase, by 19/11/2017.

D. If CIFAS Marker applied next month, then there are 10 days remaining.

My Options Going Forward

With the above timelines in mind, I see the following options

1. Apply for a mortgage quick.

a) If there is a marker on file already this will be bought to my attention (presumably). In this scenario I need to send off a SAR to CIFAS, and also start gathering evidence to make a complaint against the bank.

b) If there is no marker on file, all other things being good, the mortgage application should be successful.

c) If the mortgage is successful and a CIFAS marker gets applied to my name AFTER, I see two outcomes :

i) There will be no repercussions - the mortgage has been signed and agreed.
ii) There WILL be consequences, and I may have to pay the money back.

d) No marker currently, making a mortgage application now WILL give me a marker. Obviously, if this is the case I should avoid applying for a mortgage at this point in time.

2. Do not make any further credit applications. Send off a SAR request, await the outcome and make a decision based on that. This option means a potential 40 day wait, which means I will not have the money required in time.

Does anybody have any advice about the above points I made ?

Option 2 seems the most logical / safest, but means I would not have the money in time. Also, it means even if there are no markers on file, after waiting for the reply I would be in next month at least, and when applying for the mortgage my failed loan application would be visible to lenders. My understanding is, if I could apply for a mortgage this month, the failed loan would not be visible to lenders as the report is updated monthly.

Thanks in advance.

Jimmy_Boy · 23 October 2017 at 9:43PM

Im a little stuck on the best move to make going forward.

Im thinking I need to put in a SAR request to CIFAS, and make a complaint about the personal advisor BEOFRE I do anything else? However, this screws me up in being able to get the funds in the required time.

Like I said previously, I'm not sure if a CIFAS marker is immediate or it is 'live' the following month? And if I currently have NOT got a CIFAS marker, a mortgage application may give me a marker.

Any advice welcome, I don't want to make things worse.

dawyldthing · 23 October 2017 at 11:23PM

It might be 5 years but there's nothing stopping you paying it off earlier. Mine was 10 years but I paid it off in 3

dawyldthing · 23 October 2017 at 11:30PM

Check on noodle as I think it could well show up on there if you have got one on your file

Candyapple · 24 October 2017 at 11:13AM

Jimmy_Boy wrote: »

Im a little stuck on the best move to make going forward.

Im thinking I need to put in a SAR request to CIFAS, and make a complaint about the personal advisor BEOFRE I do anything else? However, this screws me up in being able to get the funds in the required time.

Like I said previously, I'm not sure if a CIFAS marker is immediate or it is 'live' the following month? And if I currently have NOT got a CIFAS marker, a mortgage application may give me a marker.

Any advice welcome, I don't want to make things worse.

Yes to the above. CIFAS are pretty quick and usually get back to you within a week. Don't forget it's not only CIFAS but the other agencies mentioned previously too that you need to send a SAR to as well.

I would assume once a company has informed CIFAS to add a marker against you that it would be live from that date, but I've never had one so can't say for certain.

dawyldthing wrote: »

Check on noodle as I think it could well show up on there if you have got one on your file

No it won't. If you have a CIFAS marker it won't show up on ANY of your credit files.

Loan for Property Purchase (not a mortgage)

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