Private car sale....now being taken to small claims court

Leannerobson2002 · 15 March 2017 at 11:55PM

We had only had the zafira 6 months, we bought it from our neighbours but decided we didn't need a 7 seater after all.
They asked a question about the timing chain and I said hang on I'll just ring him, he's a Mechanic so he will know. (That we as all I said about him) He answered the question that a new one had been put on...they were happy with the answer.
I have the letter she sent with the vague engine diagnosis so will definitely take that with us.
Bearing in mind she drove 30 miles home the fault occurred 2 days later, so unless the injector fault hadn't made itself identifiable before the sale then how we would know?
It's just the whole court thing...maybe she won't turn up!!!
Does that ever happen??
I know she can't retract the claim now (she would still have to pay costs) so she might as well keep it going I suppose, in case she thinks we may give her the money back!
It's been directed to our local court and we are just waiting for a date....unless the case doesn't make it to court as her statement was very badly written with no evidence or facts. Whereas my defence had a detailed description of events, photocopy of vauxhall recall checks and copy MOT and also a copy of the advert used on gumtree. I'm. Hoping that'd enough really.

worried_jim · 16 March 2017 at 12:04AM

Just tell her you'll happily see her in court and to cease all correspondence. The polite foxtrot oscar.

unholyangel · 16 March 2017 at 12:18AM

I'd really try and get from her exactly what the fault is because not everything will make a car unroadworthy and thats really the only claim she can make if the car matches its description.

This page might help you with regards to ascertaining whether it was roadworthy or not: http://swercots-partners.org.uk/sites/default/files/rta_guidance%20for%20Businesses.pdf

And perhaps also this to give some indication of what may be considered as dangerous (and therefore, unroadworthy):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/498457/Categorisation-of-defects.pdf

boo_star · 16 March 2017 at 9:32AM

unholyangel wrote: »

I'd really try and get from her exactly what the fault is because not everything will make a car unroadworthy and thats really the only claim she can make if the car matches its description.

This page might help you with regards to ascertaining whether it was roadworthy or not: http://swercots-partners.org.uk/sites/default/files/rta_guidance%20for%20Businesses.pdf

And perhaps also this to give some indication of what may be considered as dangerous (and therefore, unroadworthy):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/498457/Categorisation-of-defects.pdf

Why bother?

OP has tried to get it verified and hit a brick wall. The buyer will hit a similar brick wall if the case is put in front of a judge.

pmduk · 16 March 2017 at 10:42AM

CoolHotCold wrote: »

If it was a private sale, caveat emperor applies.

Nit picking, but, The phrase is actually "caveat emptor". Briefly it means "Let the buyer beware" a non-trade seller cannot be expected to know the product as well as a trade seller.

bris · 16 March 2017 at 10:58AM

Being a mechanic I can see the buyer thinking there may be a history of these "private car sales".

Something maybe telling her it's more than just a private sale. If there is a history of sales then it's not a private sale but a trade sale, that's a whole different ball game.

steampowered · 16 March 2017 at 12:13PM

The requirement that the car must be "satisfactory quality" only applies where the seller is a business.

As this was a private sale, the law does not make any promise about the quality of the car. You should only be held responsible for any promises or assurance you gave the buyer. No matter how unroadworthy the car was.

However if you told the buyer that the car was roadworthy and it was not, then the buyer would have a claim.

unholyangel · 16 March 2017 at 1:23PM

steampowered wrote: »

The requirement that the car must be "satisfactory quality" only applies where the seller is a business.

As this was a private sale, the law does not make any promise about the quality of the car. You should only be held responsible for any promises or assurance you gave the buyer. No matter how unroadworthy the car was.

However if you told the buyer that the car was roadworthy and it was not, then the buyer would have a claim.

That is incorrect I'm afraid. If you sell, offer to sell or expose for sale a vehicle that is unroadworthy, you are guilty of an offence unless you can prove (as a private seller....traders have additional obligations) that you sold it to be exported from the UK or that you had reasonable cause to believe it wouldnt be used on UK roads/wouldnt be used until brought into a lawful condition.

Its very much a case of assumed to be roadworthy unless stated otherwise.

However as I have said, only certain things make a car unroadworthy - such as the brakes, steering, tyres etc.

DoaM · 16 March 2017 at 2:22PM

Isn't the benchmark basically ... if it would have failed an MOT it would be unroadworthy?

This still doesn't make a private seller liable though, unless they knew the car was unroadworthy at the time of sale, failed to inform the buyer and allowed the buyer to drive the vehicle away. If the seller didn't know, or couldn't have reasonably known, that the car was unroadworthy then no offence has been committed by the seller.

unholyangel · 16 March 2017 at 2:35PM

DoaM wrote: »

Isn't the benchmark basically ... if it would have failed an MOT it would be unroadworthy?

This still doesn't make a private seller liable though, unless they knew the car was unroadworthy at the time of sale, failed to inform the buyer and allowed the buyer to drive the vehicle away. If the seller didn't know, or couldn't have reasonably known, that the car was unroadworthy then no offence has been committed by the seller.

No.

(3)For the purposes of subsection (1) above a motor vehicle or trailer is in an unroadworthy condition if—

(a)it is in such a condition that the use of it on a road in that condition would be unlawful by virtue of any provision made by regulations under section 41 of this Act as respects—

(i)brakes, steering gear or tyres, or

(ii)the construction, weight or equipment of vehicles,. . .

F1(iii). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[F2(b)it is in such a condition that its use on a road would involve a danger of injury to any person]

You can fail an MOT if your number plate bulb is out but I can't see how it would involve a danger of injury to anyone.

ETA: Also I don't believe the offence requires knowledge. The way the act is worded, if you sell/offer to sell/expose for sale an unroadworthy car, you've committed an offence but if YOU can prove you sold it for export/had reasonable cause to believe it wouldn't be driven on the roads etc, then you shall not be convicted of the offence.

Private car sale....now being taken to small claims court

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