Advice on a potential contest
g67bbx
Posts: 6 Forumite
Hi
I am asking advise on my grandmothers will.
There are two daughters of the deceased. Both have been named in the will. One has been named as receiving everything (and is the executrix), whilst the other has been named as receiving nothing for failing to maintain meaningful contact. The one who is getting nothing lives abroad. She is stating that the deceased promised to give her half of the sale of the property some years ago. However, like I said she is named in the will as receiving nothing. She is trying to claim that the deceased had a stroke (which is true) and began acting strangely afterwards, including cutting off the phone. However the will was made before she had the stroke in the presence of two secretaries for the solicitor. The reasons for cutting her out of the will include sending nasty emails to her sister. She is now claiming that her sister is manipulative and has been spending her mothers money since her dad passed away (how would she prove this untrue allegation)
I have read that " You would have the right to bring a claim but (in England and Wales) you’d only succeed if you could show that you’d been dependent on your parent financially." What does this mean in layman's terms. Would she be entitled to something, overriding the will. Would she have to show proof that an agreement had been made to split the sale.
BTW, the sale happened last year, and the deceased moved into the family home (of the person who everything was left to) and paid off the mortgage using proceeds of the property.
Advice would be appreciated as its stressing us out.
I am asking advise on my grandmothers will.
There are two daughters of the deceased. Both have been named in the will. One has been named as receiving everything (and is the executrix), whilst the other has been named as receiving nothing for failing to maintain meaningful contact. The one who is getting nothing lives abroad. She is stating that the deceased promised to give her half of the sale of the property some years ago. However, like I said she is named in the will as receiving nothing. She is trying to claim that the deceased had a stroke (which is true) and began acting strangely afterwards, including cutting off the phone. However the will was made before she had the stroke in the presence of two secretaries for the solicitor. The reasons for cutting her out of the will include sending nasty emails to her sister. She is now claiming that her sister is manipulative and has been spending her mothers money since her dad passed away (how would she prove this untrue allegation)
I have read that " You would have the right to bring a claim but (in England and Wales) you’d only succeed if you could show that you’d been dependent on your parent financially." What does this mean in layman's terms. Would she be entitled to something, overriding the will. Would she have to show proof that an agreement had been made to split the sale.
BTW, the sale happened last year, and the deceased moved into the family home (of the person who everything was left to) and paid off the mortgage using proceeds of the property.
Advice would be appreciated as its stressing us out.
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Comments
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It sounds very unlikely that the disinherited daughter has a valid claim. The executor should ask the solicitor if there are any notes about when the will was made. If the disinherited daughter wants to claim she is likely to have to pay a lot up front to a solicotr to get the case taken on.Hi
I am asking advise on my grandmothers will.
There are two daughters of the deceased. Both have been named in the will. One has been named as receiving everything (and is the executrix), whilst the other has been named as receiving nothing for failing to maintain meaningful contact. The one who is getting nothing lives abroad. She is stating that the deceased promised to give her half of the sale of the property some years ago. However, like I said she is named in the will as receiving nothing. She is trying to claim that the deceased had a stroke (which is true) and began acting strangely afterwards, including cutting off the phone. However the will was made before she had the stroke in the presence of two secretaries for the solicitor. The reasons for cutting her out of the will include sending nasty emails to her sister. She is now claiming that her sister is manipulative and has been spending her mothers money since her dad passed away (how would she prove this untrue allegation)
I have read that " You would have the right to bring a claim but (in England and Wales) you’d only succeed if you could show that you’d been dependent on your parent financially." What does this mean in layman's terms. Would she be entitled to something, overriding the will. Would she have to show proof that an agreement had been made to split the sale.
BTW, the sale happened last year, and the deceased moved into the family home (of the person who everything was left to) and paid off the mortgage using proceeds of the property.
Advice would be appreciated as its stressing us out.0 -
" " You would have the right to bring a claim but (in England and Wales) you’d only succeed if you could show that you’d been dependent on your parent financially.""
You are conflating two issues. People who are financially dependent can challenge valid wills made by competent testators. They are asking a court to find that the historically unchallenged right of people to dispose of their assets as they wish is, in their particular case, mitigated by an obligation to continue to support after death people they have supported before death. Courts rightly take a high threshold for this, but there is legislation (Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975) to provide a basis for this. Such challenges do not challenge the validity of the will: they ask the court to vary its terms.
Pretty much anyone can challenge the validity of a will, asking for it to be set aside and replaced with some other will, or the estate placed into intestacy, on the basis that the testator was not competent or was under undue influence or whatever else. Courts then adjudicate. They usually reject such claims, and there is a lot of bluff in claims that such actions are going to be started, but situations like this are where well-intentioned amateur wills come back to haunt the executors.0 -
Thank you. I shall pass on this and advise the executor to ask the notes to be released. If she made a claim, would she have to come to the UK to do so?0
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She would have to instruct a solicitor in the UK and not appearing in court would make it even more difficult to prove her case.0
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Thank you. I shall pass on this and advise the executor to ask the notes to be released. If she made a claim, would she have to come to the UK to do so?
In law? No. In practice? Yes. If it actually came to proper legal action, then the only evidence (on the facts you have presented) that the will is invalid is the testimony of the sister. There's possibly documentary evidence to support the contention that the will is _valid_, but nothing to support the idea that it is not, beyond the sister's feelz. That is pretty sketchy evidence that is unlikely to get anywhere anyway, but without the ability of anyone (either the executor's lawyers or the court) to actually cross-examine the evidence then it's going nowhere. A solicitor willing to take such a case would be wise to secure payment up front.
Is she bluffing in the hope that the executors cave at the mere thought of level action? Almost certainly. Does she understand the law or the likely outcomes given the evidence she has? Almost certainly not.0 -
The will only deals with what the grandmother had when she died. If she sold her house before then and gave all the proceeds to one of her daughters, that's her prerogative and contesting a will, even if successful, wouldn't get her a share of the house money, only a share of what gran had in the bank.
However, under the 7 year rule, as the gift was only last year, the cash is counted as part of her estate for IHT purposes.0 -
She is now claiming that her sister is manipulative and has been spending her mothers money since her dad passed away (how would she prove this untrue allegation)
Well, if we take the sentence literally, she can't as it's untrue.
If the mother gave the sister money to spend of her own free will, then there is nothing to prove as no-one has done anything wrong.
If the sister (your mother?) was stealing the money, either directly or by abusing a Power of Attorney, some combination of the mother's bank statements and evidence of a sudden jump in the sister's expenditure would be what the court would look at. Trouble is though, even if inheriting sister had been stealing her mother's money, disinherited sister has lost nothing, as she wasn't going to inherit her mother's money anyway.Would she have to show proof that an agreement had been made to split the sale.
Even if she could prove that the mother promised her half the house it's irrelevant. The Will is what matters. The mother may have promised the disinherited sister the moon on a stick but if she didn't put it in her Will, then words are wind.
And a claim that she was dependent on her mother sounds like a non-starter, unless the mother was making regular payments to her or something else we don't know about.
I see no reason to stress about it. You are holding all the cards and it doesn't sound like the disinherited sister has a leg to stand on.0 -
Agree with other posters regarding a claim - If it is of interest, have a look at the Wright-v-Waters[2014] - The tale of a disinherited daughter that attempted to make a claim under the Inheritance Act and lost.
One question that hasn't been asked - Has probate been granted, and how long ago ?
There is a six month time limit to initiate proceedings after probate has been granted. Outside of this, she would need to get high court permission (very expensive) and demonstrate a reasonable case (unlikely).Her courage will change the world.
Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.0 -
Malthusian wrote: »Well, if we take the sentence literally, she can't as it's untrue.
If the mother gave the sister money to spend of her own free will, then there is nothing to prove as no-one has done anything wrong.
If the sister (your mother?) was stealing the money, either directly or by abusing a Power of Attorney, some combination of the mother's bank statements and evidence of a sudden jump in the sister's expenditure would be what the court would look at. Trouble is though, even if inheriting sister had been stealing her mother's money, disinherited sister has lost nothing, as she wasn't going to inherit her mother's money anyway.
Even if she could prove that the mother promised her half the house it's irrelevant. The Will is what matters. The mother may have promised the disinherited sister the moon on a stick but if she didn't put it in her Will, then words are wind.
And a claim that she was dependent on her mother sounds like a non-starter, unless the mother was making regular payments to her or something else we don't know about.
I see no reason to stress about it. You are holding all the cards and it doesn't sound like the disinherited sister has a leg to stand on.
From time to time gran did give my mother money, either to help out at home or to pay for car repairs etc, not to spend recklessly.No POA was held however mother was allowed to view the bank accounts but could not withdraw/sign etc. Gran did not give any money at all to the disinherited sister since she had been abroad (at least 19 years)0 -
Agree with other posters regarding a claim - If it is of interest, have a look at the Wright-v-Waters[2014] - The tale of a disinherited daughter that attempted to make a claim under the Inheritance Act and lost.
One question that hasn't been asked - Has probate been granted, and how long ago ?
There is a six month time limit to initiate proceedings after probate has been granted. Outside of this, she would need to get high court permission (very expensive) and demonstrate a reasonable case (unlikely).
The probate application is in and we are expecting it back in 2-3 weeks0
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