Oh ... so FCA decided in 2015 that Aviva Investors Global Svcs Ltd peeps were crooks!

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Just stumbled upon this.

And in the middle of the first few pages I read this:
4.7. Aviva Investors’ policy required trades to be allocated to specific funds at the time of, or immediately after, the order. However weaknesses in Aviva Investors’ systems and processes (see paragraphs 4.16 - 4.17 below) meant Traders could delay recording the allocation of executed trades for several hours. By delaying the allocation of trades, Side-by-Side Traders could assess a trade’s performance during the course of the day and, when it was recorded, allocate trades that benefitted from favourable intraday price movements to one fund and trades that did not to other funds. For example, a Side-by-Side Trader could buy an instrument at 9 am intending to allocate it to the Hedge Fund, but by 3 pm, seeing that the instrument had fallen in value, allocate it to a Long-Only fund. This is commonly known as Cherry Picking.
Now I don't recognise that as Cherry Picking. I recognise that as actual fraud.
Am I wrong?
Did anyone go to jail?

I believe this concerns me directly because I think I own Aviva policies with funds managed by the company in question.

Should I and other Aviva customers be concerned?
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  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,373 Forumite
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    so FCA decided in 2015 that Aviva Investors Global Svcs Ltd peeps were crooks!

    The FCA does not have that power.
    Did anyone go to jail?

    Only a court can decide that and the FCA did not instigate any legal action.

    The traders were taking advantage of lax systems and controls and what they did was not illegal. It was a regulatory breach. Market abuse can be at the legal level or regulatory level. Its not all illegal.
    I believe this concerns me directly because I think I own Aviva policies with funds managed by the company in question.

    And the 8 funds affected were compensated. It was at fund level. Not product level.
    Should I and other Aviva customers be concerned?

    No. It proved extremely costly to Aviva and changes were put in place which the FCA are happy with. Sometimes you are better off being with the one that got caught and made an example of rather than the ones that were doing the same thing elsewhere but didnt get caught and were able to change before they were.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • agarnett
    agarnett Posts: 1,301 Forumite
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    I read further that this practice that resulted in the FCA fine related to a period of several years, but that the compensation made to the affected funds was just £132 million.

    I have further realised that the this Aviva subsidiary is indeed or was at least in 2013 "the main Discretionary Fund Manager (the'Fund Manager') of the Fund in which my Section 32 pension policy is invested - the Aviva Life & Pensions UK Limited Old With-Profits Sub Fund (and New With-Profits Sub-Fund) and I assume, that means they are the Fund Manager for the approx. £3BN inherited estate which Aviva conned away from most policyholders (not me - but most of yours based on opinions you published at the time - 2009?).

    That meant that there are Sub-Funds which I do not have an interest in but which Aviva do have an interest in directly. Was my Sub-fund discriminated against by the crooks in favour of funds in which Aviva shareholders had an interest?

    Goodness knows how big the whole WP Fund is that I am invested in, but no doubt £132million is a fart in the wind over several years of management of a multi-billion pound fund.

    Sometimes you are better off with true transparency in financial services rather than the very murky pools Aviva and others create deliberately.
  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,941 Forumite
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    agarnett wrote: »
    I read further that this practice that resulted in the FCA fine related to a period of several years, but that the compensation made to the affected funds was just £132 million.

    What have you calculated the total compensation due to be? Show your working. [8]
  • agarnett
    agarnett Posts: 1,301 Forumite
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    Are you just another industry obfuscation expert, Malthusian? Or just one who is alright Jack and feels they can hold their own against the big boys and never mind the rest? Where's the public good in your comment?
  • Triumph13
    Triumph13 Posts: 1,730 Forumite
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    The public good is in not letting a random 'finance industry are all crooks' statement go unchallenged. If you do that you end up with people keeping their cash under the mattress.
    Weak controls allowed some unscrupulous traders to mildly cook the books. The FCA stopped this, because that is what they are for and calculated how much the impacted funds needed to be compensated by. Everyone now knows that they have to have controls to prevent this kind of thing happening again.
    If you genuinely have information to show that the FCA underestimated the amount of compensation and that Aviva customers have been hard done by or, as you seem to imply, continue to be then please share it.
  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,941 Forumite
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    agarnett wrote: »
    Are you just another industry obfuscation expert, Malthusian? Or just one who is alright Jack and feels they can hold their own against the big boys and never mind the rest? Where's the public good in your comment?

    1/8. If you don't know the answer you should at least give it a go, you might pick up marks for correct technique or working.
  • woolly_wombat
    woolly_wombat Posts: 819 Forumite
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    agarnett wrote: »
    Are you just another industry obfuscation expert, Malthusian? Or just one who is alright Jack and feels they can hold their own against the big boys and never mind the rest? Where's the public good in your comment?

    Seen it all before on other sites/forums re Equitable Life.

    Folks going to great lengths to make out that all was fine and rosy when it clearly wasn't.
  • agarnett
    agarnett Posts: 1,301 Forumite
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    Yes you are so right W_W.

    There's two sorts - weak brains who have built their own wealth hanging on the apron strings of the rotten financial services culture that has developed over three full decades now, plus others I feel more sorry for who really can't believe so many in the industry can be so corrupt, and want to believe in the good in most people, but the culture went viral. Even the quiet spoken head down grafters say nothing from inside when they come across obvious corruption. They have their pensions to worry about after all!

    Everytime I speak to Aviva employees I remind them that my pension scheme is propping up their's through regular raids on the inherited estate.

    But it is much worse than that, as this FCA case shows.

    FCA are nothing more than very questionable negotiators with crooks on behalf of HMG i.e. we know you've been crooked so would you please stump up X million for the FCA benevolent fund so we can let you continue business as usual. Who is the the stronger party? Bent police or organised crime? It is a valid analogy.
  • eightfoot2
    eightfoot2 Posts: 29 Forumite
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    this thread is quite well timed as I'm not really up on pension but was sorting some paperwork out last week and came across a letter from Aviva dated 18mths ago
    long story short,had s/e pension with Hamilton life was taken over by Aviva some time ago always got annual statement showing value these stopped in 2012 didn't really bother about chasing them up,now on to this letter from 18mths ago it states they have identified some "irregularities" with the value of the policy and as a result have added extra units to my policy,now there is no explanation as to what went wrong so I phoned Aviva on Monday to find where my statements had got to and could they explain to me what had gone wrong so I could decide if I have been fully re embursed,only explanation they would give me was "the units performed better than they expected so units where added to show this" (sound wrong to me) but they said the only way I could possibly get more info was to write requesting an explanation
    so my question is could this be what the o/p was referring to regarding crooks or does someone know what direction to point me in tofind more info on this thanks
    in for a penny
  • GarthThomas
    GarthThomas Posts: 164 Forumite
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    agarnett wrote: »
    Are you just another industry obfuscation expert, Malthusian? Or just one who is alright Jack and feels they can hold their own against the big boys and never mind the rest? Where's the public good in your comment?

    It sounds as though you may be better off staying away from financial companies with your investments and pensions. It's easy enough to do, you take your wages and put the spare in a box, or set up your own company with it.

    I don't take that route, as I don't agree with your outlook, I'm a busy worker, and am happy to let others rebalance my holdings for me, and know that the FCA does a pretty good job (I'm subject to them, so am well aware of what they do) but if you aren't happy with them then it's better to step away from financial services entirely and take care of your money yourself.
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