Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

LittleVermin wrote: »

...BUT the incoming supplier does NOT have to buy the tank off the outgoing supplier: they can supply their own (you don’t pay) and the outgoing supplier removes theirs (there is NO uplift charge to the user if it’s the end of the contract, either by virtue of 2 yrs being up OR if the supplier broke the terms of the contract and the user gave notice).

This is what happened to me when I changed Suppliers. The tank was ancient, so the incoming supplier, quite understandably, didn't wish to exercise their "Right to buy". One thing to be aware of in such a situation is that it then becomes the responsibility of the outgoing supplier to physically remove their tank from your property. The incoming supplier will move it to enable them to install your new tank, but you will them need somewhere safe and accessible to store the old one until such times as your outgoing supplier dains to collect it (which in my case, was the thick end of a month!).

LittleVermin wrote: »

5.2 If the statements confirm that the customer is eligible to switch and that the existing supplier owns the tank, the existing supplier shall at the same time as he provides the statements also provide the new supplier with:

<detail snipped for brevity - see original quoted post>

so no mention of the LPG user's rights to have this info!

I don't know, but I would presume that this would give the customer the right to a copy of this information if they were buying (or more importantly in light of the original post asking about availability of certifications) considering buying the tank (when contractually permitted). After all, there is no obligation to proceed with a purchase once you have "expressed an interest", so that might be one way to get the said information. As LV has obviously just re-read the CC order (or has a photographic memory ) maybe he can confirm?

Den2Mark wrote: »

Responding to The Hornet's post #628 about Countrywide increasing their LPG prices by 4p, I also got a letter on 22 Jan from Countrywide, but putting my price up by 7ppl (from 35ppl, but they don't mention my existing price in the letter, or the price it is going up to, just the 7p increase).

Some weeks or months ago I thought I read a posting here that said that suppliers had to raise everyone's price by the same amount, with a comparison to the mortgage market, where everyone with a similar mortgage product has to have prices go up or down by the same amount. Sorry not to trawl back through the posts - I will do given time. But can anyone comment on this? Do all customers prices have to go up/down by the same amount, or can a supplier raise some people's price by more than others?

Thanks for any advice.

Any suggestion that LPG prices should be, or are, in any way linked to mortgage rates are totally specious. There is no conceivable link between the two. The OFT prefer a link to the Platts LP Gaswire index and/or RPI. Sadly, the Platts index is not available to mere mortals like us, unless we are willing/able to fork out over £1500 a year (and if that was an option, I guess we wouldn't be worrying about the odd penny or three increase here and there )

Also, as far as I am aware, there is no requirement to raise prices "universally" (although many companies choose to do this). There are a number of factors that affect cost and what, if any price rise can be imposed: RPI, LPG commodity price, the customer's rate of usage, the distance from the distribution depot and, very importantly, any specific contractual terms in force at the time. Furthermore, "standard" contracts vary from time to time - all contracts changed when the OFT ruling came into force in 2009 (or at least they should have). On top of this, companies can change the terms of the contract for new customers at any time, for example Shell changed their contract sometime over the last year or so to change their maximum permitted rate of rise from 10ppl / 6 months to 3.5ppl / 6 months.

We have all become used to Calor, Flogas et al imposing blanket price rises across their entire customer base and relying on the individual customer to call "foul" if they breach their contract by so doing, but the fact that Countrywide seem to be imposing different rises on different customers could, in fact be construed as a "good thing", at least in as much as one could infer that they are imposing the rises on a "case-by-case" basis.

My suggestion would be to check the small print on your contract carefully. I would also suggest that you read back over my recent posts on "unfair" contracts (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=40237294&postcount=590 and http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=40209456&postcount=582) to satisfy yourself that the contract you have is actually legally enforceable (remember, an unfair contract term can not be enforced)

I notice that, for some reason, the link I posted to the OFT ruling on the unfair Flogas contract has disappeared ("curious"!), but the OFT statement in respect of pricing is as posted in my post #582, referenced above.

Den2Mark wrote: »

Responding to The Hornet's post #628 about Countrywide increasing their LPG prices by 4p, I also got a letter on 22 Jan from Countrywide, but putting my price up by 7ppl (from 35ppl, but they don't mention my existing price in the letter, or the price it is going up to, just the 7p increase).

Some weeks or months ago I thought I read a posting here that said that suppliers had to raise everyone's price by the same amount, with a comparison to the mortgage market, where everyone with a similar mortgage product has to have prices go up or down by the same amount. Sorry not to trawl back through the posts - I will do given time. But can anyone comment on this? Do all customers prices have to go up/down by the same amount, or can a supplier raise some people's price by more than others?

Thanks for any advice.

This is illegal (raising price by differing amounts) as that in itself would be an unfair contract. Raiseing relatively to the morgage market is not got anything to do with LPG market prices? It could mean rididculas rise or vice versa.

SD-253_(a.k.a._brandeberryj) wrote: »

Umm yes I do think the standing charge is going to remain the same for the entire duration of the contract that’s why it is called a contract. Wouldn't you agree? And I have said the standard cost of the standing charge is £60 in fact he asked me what my previous charge was and said he would charge the same. Are you sure people are not just agreeing to the first thing they (the salesman) offers?

Actually, no, I wouldn't agree.

From the current Flogas Contract Terms (which I have readily to hand):

.... Please further note that this standing charge is subject to increases in our operational costs and other such increases which may be passed on to you.

It is arguable that this in practice contract term as it stands is unfair, for the reason that it potentially allows unfettered increase of standing charges, but in principle, it is a fair and legitimate clause. As I posted before, read back through this forum and you will see that tank standing charges are unquestionably increasing.

SD-253_(a.k.a._brandeberryj) wrote: »

This is illegal (raising price by differing amounts) as that in itself would be an unfair contract.

No. It. Isn't.

Each and every user is quite entitled to try to negotiate their own specific contract, and every supplier is quite entitled to offer whatever enticements, introductory offers or other deals it sees fit to capture the business.

What is illegal is to breach that contract, or to couch it in such terms as to permit an "unfettered" price rise (the OFTs term, not mine!)