McDonald's & MET - almost a month later

cinereus · 19 August 2016 at 4:36PM

The registered keeper got a Parking Charge Notice from MET following 106 mins in a 90 min limit McD's car park. Whoever was driving broke down and was waiting for assistance which is why it took so long. They paid for food with a credit card.

I've read the newbie sticky twice now and can't make heads or tail of it with all the info scattered all over the place and strange sentence construction.

Postal PCN ? (i.e. with no mention of any windscreen ticket at all, whether seen or not):

A postal PCN or NTK might be headed up 'Notice to Keeper' or 'Reminder' or 'Charge Notice' or it may even be a random letter from a debt collector - it is still your Notice to Keeper, in effect, if it is the first letter to arrive.

Compare your postal PCN to paragraph 8 or 9 of POFA 2012 (linked below), depending if there was a windscreen ticket issued first or not. It's an excerpt from a law but it really isn't difficult, please don't just ask the regulars here to check your NTK for you without making an attempt to check it yourself, unless you really need help to read the simple bullet points in paragraph 8 (NTK which follows a windscreen ticket) or paragraph 9 (NTK which serves as the first PCN).

Look for omissions in wording or late arrival of the NTK and include those points in your appeal because as the registered keeper you can argue 'no keeper liability' if the PPC have not followed the requirements for a NTK. However that does not make the ticket 'illegal' it just demotes it to one which is issued under 'old rules and is only potentially aimed at an - unidentified of course! - driver.

An appeal can be submitted by the keeper after a postal NTK even if the first opportunity has expired, after a windcsreen PCN.

"An appeal can be submitted by the keeper after a postal NTK even if the first opportunity has expired, after a windcsreen [sic] PCN."

Letter is dated almost month ago and was issued within 7 days. First discount date has passed, 3 days until 28 day cut-off. Keeper was away for a month hence tardiness in finding it.

Can the keeper submit an appeal or not? The tacked on "after a windscreen PCN" makes the sentence unparseable.

I assume you guys know the MET letters well but there's no mention I can find of whether these are "correct" under the POFA 2012 (although by my reading it seems fine apart from an omission from para 8(2)a and the fact it never mentions either a Keeper or Registered Keeper).

MET are BPA members so, according to the sticky, it would seem the next step is to appeal to MET? Why then do all the linked successes related to MET & McD's suggest contacting the manager first?

So ignoring the advice to contact McD's manager or this unparseable clause about a windscreen notice, I assume I write a BPA appeal and then go to POPLA starting with this letter?:

Date

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Thanks for any help. If we are not familiar with the current wording of MET notices, I can copy it all out here. And FWIW, no signage was noticed whilst there.

Redx · 19 August 2016 at 5:22PM

by all means submit the blue text appeal but as MET will only allow 28 days for the appeal to be lodged they are likely to refuse it as "out of time" and therefore wont be issuing a popla code

the newbies thread also mentions that many PPC,s dont follow POFA2012 and so do not rely on it

a MCD cancellation is your best option and should ALWAYS be tried

cinereus · 19 August 2016 at 6:14PM

Redx wrote: »

by all means submit the blue text appeal but as MET will only allow 28 days for the appeal to be lodged they are likely to refuse it as "out of time" and therefore wont be issuing a popla code

the newbies thread also mentions that many PPC,s dont follow POFA2012 and so do not rely on it

a MCD cancellation is your best option and should ALWAYS be tried

But it's still within 28 days?

But McD's cancellation you mean trying to find details of the manager? Apart from being a customer and breaking down, is there anything else the driver can mention?

Redx · 19 August 2016 at 6:20PM

in that case get the blue text appeal in asap , if not sooner , preferably online , as keeper , add a line to state that the driver was a genuine customer and that the vehicle had broken down so leeway should be shown and the invoice cancelled

the complaint descriptions mentioned above should be enough for MCD too , because they are true , only one point should be needed so you have twice as many as required already, so less is more , so complain STRONGLY to said manager

cinereus · 19 August 2016 at 6:47PM

Thanks. How best to word it without giving information about who was driving?

And can I just phone McD's to speak to their manager? Need to say more than it's unfair and avoid information about the driver?

Redx · 19 August 2016 at 7:08PM

Redx wrote: »

the driver was a genuine customer and that the vehicle had broken down so leeway should be shown and the invoice cancelled

it really is that simple , which is why I worded it that way , add it to the blue text near the bottom and adapt it to read properly

the simple method by which this is done is to ban the word I

by all means phone the manager as an irate keeper , anytime the driver is mentioned , use the words "the driver"

assume you were a passenger in the vehicle , or that I was the driver

how hard can it be ?

The_Deep · 20 August 2016 at 7:18AM

And can I just phone McD's to speak to their manager? Need to say more than it's unfair and avoid information about the driver?

No go there, and, in front of customers, make a robust complaint, follow it up with a letter to head office.

What has fairness got to do with it? This is a scam, fight fire with fire.

cinereus · 21 August 2016 at 6:25PM

The_Deep wrote: »

And can I just phone McD's to speak to their manager? Need to say more than it's unfair and avoid information about the driver?

No go there, and, in front of customers, make a robust complaint, follow it up with a letter to head office.

What has fairness got to do with it? This is a scam, fight fire with fire.

Not really possible when it's many, many hours away. Hence the difficulty dealing promptly with the breakdown too.

So, yes to phone then?

Fruitcake · 21 August 2016 at 7:14PM

cinereus wrote: »

Not really possible when it's many, many hours away. Hence the difficulty dealing promptly with the breakdown too.

So, yes to phone then?

Yes, 'phone the manager, take his/her name, complain robustly. Back it up with a letter or email to the named manager you speak to, and/or head office. Explain you and your family will become instant ex customers if this isn't cancelled. Warn other people about the scammers that operate at this Muck Dees on Tw@tter, Fakebook, or Trapadvisor.
Remember to practice saying, The Driver ...

Have you sent the amended BPA template yet?

cinereus · 21 August 2016 at 11:28PM

Fruitcake wrote: »

Yes, 'phone the manager, take his/her name, complain robustly. Back it up with a letter or email to the named manager you speak to, and/or head office. Explain you and your family will become instant ex customers if this isn't cancelled. Warn other people about the scammers that operate at this Muck Dees on Tw@tter, Fakebook, or Trapadvisor.
Remember to practice saying, The Driver ...

Have you sent the amended BPA template yet?

Thanks. I will do that.

I will send it first thing tomorrow. Is it worth mentioning I was away so only received the notification late? And is there anything else I need to mention?

Fruitcake · 22 August 2016 at 7:47AM

cinereus wrote: »

Thanks. I will do that.

I will send it first thing tomorrow. Is it worth mentioning I was away so only received the notification late? And is there anything else I need to mention?

What happened is irrelevant. You received an unfair parking charge, you want it cancelled.
For the Muck Dees manager, you could try stick and carrot. You would like to tell people he got the charge cancelled, but you will leave negative feedback if it isn't

McDonald's & MET - almost a month later

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