Pensions Planning: The NUMBER
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DairyQueen wrote: »i sympathise. I wouldn't have dental treatment under the NHS ever again. I had the same NHS dentist for 7 years - 6 monthly check-ups and never any alarm bells raised.....
So basically everything was fine when you were NHS but it all went down hill when you went private. :eek:
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DairyQueen and Terron I had no idea that you could get a bill that high for teeth !!
Hubby lost his front top row in an accident - and to rebuild, make new teeth put in bridge etc was in the region of £1400 but visa NHS treatment the amount we paid was capped at around the £500 mark.
I was told I had a funny bite by both the dentist I saw from my childhood and the one I saw after I left home, but neither did anything about it,. Over decades that cause my front teeth to wear down and put preasure on the teeth further back. Eventually they started to go and as one went the presure would move to another. It didn't help that I grew up in an area with soft water before fluride touthpaste was common.
If I had been treated earlier on it would have been much cheaper to do. Because most of my teeth were worn down I needed over 20 crowns after my bite had been adjusted. Several appointments lasted over 5 hours. As it was I paid for 25 years of damage to be fixed at once.
He warned me that a couple of the teeth were rather weak and the crowns might not last, Both have cone now but lasted over 10 years.,. I have 4 implants now., one needed a bone graft.0 -
DairyQueen and Terron , in a large part the opinion on responsibility is down to interpretation and in a large part the dentist is not at fault mostly or completely. . Everything we use breaks - the fact teeth break is no more fault of the dentist than the fact people die is fault of doctors. All has limited lifespan. I would agree NHS dentistry is a joke but it is not the dentist's fsult - they are in a bad system and each of them deals with it differentlyThe word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.0 -
My estimated expenses when I'm in state pension age (2040ish) are:
Council tax £207.34
Energy £71.15
Phones & bband £59.21
food, entertainment, travel £1,422.96
insurances including PMI £203.28
DIY, dentist, specs etc £203.28 (not DIY dentist )
= £2,167.22pm :eek:
Assuming that the income tax stays the same and the tax free allowance raises to £18k by 2040, I will need approx £28-29k income from pensions. This is excluding state pension as I have a feeling that it will be removed or that it will become means tested by the time I am in state pension age :mad:.
Above is taking today's spending and adding 3% increase in every year to try to estimate inflation. The travel etc is a bit skewed figure as I spend £200 pm for travel at the moment and won't be needing that, but may replace that with a car after I stop working - or additional holidays etc.
I am concentrating my efforts on getting guaranteed income to that level (in LGPS) even with 7 year reduction rate (currently 31%) and hoping to also have enough savings in order stop working in 11-12 years... Lottery win would be very useful0 -
pennystretcher wrote: »
= £2,167.22pm :eek:
Is that for one or two people? Sounds about average for two.0 -
For one. However that's an estimate for yr 2040 and taking 3% inflation into account..
I think the phone part can be cut into half as I won't have to have 100% reliable internet access and can use mobile internet. (or whatever is available in 2040 - maybe we will all have free Wifi by then...)0 -
DairyQueen and Terron , in a large part the opinion on responsibility is down to interpretation and in a large part the dentist is not at fault mostly or completely. . Everything we use breaks - the fact teeth break is no more fault of the dentist than the fact people die is fault of doctors. All has limited lifespan. I would agree NHS dentistry is a joke but it is not the dentist's fsult - they are in a bad system and each of them deals with it differently
My teeth were wearing faster than normal. I can understand the NHS dentists not doing something about it, but it would have been nice to have been informed that something could be done so that I could have investigated doing it earlier.0 -
DairyQueen and Terron , in a large part the opinion on responsibility is down to interpretation and in a large part the dentist is not at fault mostly or completely. . Everything we use breaks - the fact teeth break is no more fault of the dentist than the fact people die is fault of doctors. All has limited lifespan. I would agree NHS dentistry is a joke but it is not the dentist's fsult - they are in a bad system and each of them deals with it differently
I'm sure that there are many dentists that treat NHS patients equally with those paying privately. I just haven't found one.
My dental problem was not open to interpretation. Four dentists (on both sides of the Atlantic) have agreed on the cause. It's a progressive condition and it has a tendency to run in families. The symptoms are receding gums and loss of bone in both upper and lower jaws. It is a condition that would have been obvious to any dental specialist long before the alarm bells were raised for me.
As bone and gums are the foundations that hold your teeth in place there is a very big problem when they are compromised. It took years for my teeth to loosen but even when they started to become misaligned, and I queried it, Mr NHS pooh-poohed my concerns. I was told "it's your age". I was then in my 40s. Yep, really.
There is absolutely zero wrong with my teeth. All the extractions are the result of the bone/gum loss and/or the vulnerability to infection caused by that loss. I have never had a broken tooth or an infected tooth. Nope, it's all about the gums.
I curse that NHS dentist.
For the record, his colleague (at the same practice) took one look and gave me chapter-and-verse about the symptoms and the cause. I was then given options about remedies. Some are not available on the NHS as they are too danged expensive: implants and bone grafts for starters. After listening to her catalogue of doom I decided that any practice that employed her colleague was best avoided.
I headed straight for the door and into the (metaphorical) arms of my current dentist. We have conversations about NHS dentistry and I know that he would be very happy to treat on the NHS if the difference between cost and renumeration were less acute, and if all treatments were available to NHS patients. He would not be able to treat NHS patients equally so he opts not to treat them at all.
Many of the treatments I have chosen are not available on the NHS but they have been the best treatments available for me and, yes, dental treatment can be extortionately expensive. NHS patients are protected from the true cost. I know some people who have spent more than £20k - not on aesthetics but on treatment.
I now have a gleaming set of straight gnashers. Some are my own, many are not, but there isn't a denture amongst them and I suffer no infections or bleeding gums. That would not be the case if I hadn't had the means to foot that £16k bill. The cost meant sacrifices on other things but it was worth it.
When my dentist cleans my teeth now he really cleans them. No more of that quick scrape and polish nonsense. I have a deep clean twice a year. It takes an hour and costs £220. Plus investing in a high quality toothbrush and a Sonic flosser. For me the ongoing cost is worth it.
The chances are that I will require more treatment in the future and I intend to have the means to pay for it. So, yep, my number includes a chunk of cash reserved for that purpose. Other people may not put such a high priority on avoiding dentures and, sometimes, it's a straight choice: denture or implants. You pays your money and you takes your choice.0 -
pennystretcher wrote: »My estimated expenses when I'm in state pension age (2040ish) are:
Congrats for doing so much planning whilst so young. Couple of things about your number:
1) I have just completed my rant about the cost of my dental treatment (previous post on this thread). I realise that my case is exceptional but bits tend to wear out faster as you approach/reach retirement age. I think that your figure for continuing to see/hear/eat/walk
may be a tad optimistic, especially if that includes 20+ years inflation at 3% compounded. Medical gizmos that you never dreamed you would need hit the expenses list. Yep, the NHS may fund something but probably not the best or most appropriate something.
I have seen the seniors in my family (none of whom are wealthy) fork-out for: glasses that cost extra for thin lenses, walking frames, mobility scooters, wheelchairs, hearing aids, grab rails, level entry showers, riser chairs, blah de blah. Plus, of course, extra dental treatment is one that applies to just about everyone I know aged 60+. State remedies are either means-tested or in the 'poor substitute' category.
2) That energy cost looks very low. I am expecting energy costs to rise more than inflation to fund investment in green energy, if no other reason. Also, heating costs are one of the things that will definitely rise significantly from the year that you retire.
3) No allowance for water? Or TV licence? What about replacing things like white goods, household appliances, TV, phone? And the cost of calling in the plumber if a pipe bursts or the loo springs a leak? Clothes? Pets? (current/future). Then there are the other discretionary things: gifts/Christmas/holidays? And the miscellaneous other bits/bobs: plants for the garden? Christmas tree? Logs for a woodburner? Extra food for visitors? Hobbies? Costs of volunteering (there are some)? Printer supplies? Indulging/helping children/grandchildren? A miscellaneous category gives you a bit of extra wriggle-room.
4) I would split the food from the travel and entertainment as the first isn't discretionary and it looks like the second will change when you retire. The third is definitely discretionary.
When I did my analysis I separated current discretionary spends from non-discretionary. Removed everything that I wouldn't need (travel costs for work) and then applied the same 3% inflation as you to the total non-discretionary amount up to my desired retirement age. That was the figure that I aimed to achieve in guaranteed income so that all basic expenses were covered.
I then worked out three figures for discretionary spends: a) need to stay sane, b) nice to have, c) wahey life is a party. The first of these is the minimum you need to be able to drawdown in additional savings (ISAs/SIPPs/whatever). Inflation-proofed, of course.
There is also the unexpected, unlucky cost that may hit. In my case it was fighting a planning application. That was very, very costly but necessary to preserve my quality of life without having to move. If you want to have all your bases covered then you need a chunk of cash sufficient to fund such things. A car is also not a discretionary item if you live (as I do) in a rural area. Or plan to do so.
Good luck with it.0
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