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  • FIRST POST
    • aamstrob
    • By aamstrob 15th Nov 17, 12:13 AM
    • 1Posts
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    aamstrob
    Take off the market to prevent gazumping
    • #1
    • 15th Nov 17, 12:13 AM
    Take off the market to prevent gazumping 15th Nov 17 at 12:13 AM
    I have made an offer on a property which has now been accepted. The offer was made in written form and subject to a number of conditions e.g. the property to be taken off the market including the estate agent's website.

    While I have got the ball rolling by instructing a solicitor and sorting out mortgage/ surveyor i.e. incurring costs, I have now found that the property is still listed on the estate agent's website with "Under Offer" slapped on it. Can I ask the estate agent to remove the listing given the offer was accepted along with its conditions and this is a blatant violation of it?
Page 1
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 15th Nov 17, 1:06 AM
    • 6,873 Posts
    • 12,378 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    • #2
    • 15th Nov 17, 1:06 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Nov 17, 1:06 AM
    Can I ask the estate agent to remove the listing
    You can ask for a bottle of whisky and thirty virgins if you like. You won't necessarily get what you ask for.

    It's no longer listed as 'for sale' and 'on the market' on the agent's website.

    Instead, it's effectively listed as a property for which they have secured an offer and are attempting to conclude a sale process.

    If you went to somewhere like Rightmove and accepted the default search options and didn't check the extra box to say "show me all the ones already sold subject to contract or under offer", you wouldn't see it.

    Estate agents are typically reluctant to completely remove something from their sale history if it hasn't actually sold. It reduces their market share in the statistics on Rightmove etc which help them win new customers, and at the end of the day they haven't actually sold the property so they can't claim they have done. Your idea is that they should just delete it from the website as if it doesn't exist, erased from history. However, effectively they have complied with your wishes and no longer have a sign at the property or online that says it's "for sale". They say it's under offer. That's generally how these things work.

    At the end of the day the agent will be acting on sellers instructions or at least claim they are, in following their internal policies no matter what you want them to do. If you don't like it, the only thing you can do about it is withdraw your offer and tell them you are pulling out because they didn't stick to what they agreed . Given you have already started spending money, that gets you precisely nowhere.

    Effectively all you have done is made them an offer which their seller has accepted "subject to contract" and clearly you have not exchanged contracts yet so the offer is not binding on either side whether you like it or not, unless you have actually paid them to do something that they agreed to do in writing. And it would have been silly to pay them a deposit to take it off the market without doing all the searches and surveys to ensure you really wanted the house, so I expect you didn't do that.. So, it is what it is.

    Both the property I'm currently selling and the one I'm buying are still on the websites but no longer cleanly "for sale", instead under offer or sold stc.

    If you are cynical/ suspicious about the agent's intentions, get a friend or family member or workmate to give them a call and say "hey you have a property on X Street for Y price, can I come and see it please? Aww, you're not taking viewings at the moment because it's under offer? But I really love the location and the pictures, and I'm a cash buyer - is there any chance at all I could come and see it, or is there a time limit on how long you'll let it stay under offer?"

    Then you'll find out if they really consider it temporarily off the market or are still taking viewings on it.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 15-11-2017 at 1:21 AM.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Nov 17, 1:27 AM
    • 23,528 Posts
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    Davesnave
    • #3
    • 15th Nov 17, 1:27 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Nov 17, 1:27 AM
    Can I ask the estate agent to remove the listing given the offer was accepted along with its conditions and this is a blatant violation of it?
    Originally posted by aamstrob
    'Under offer' is a clear summary of the current situation, where you are not yet committed to buy, nor is the vendor committed to sell.

    You cannot change the true legal situation by making up your own conditions.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 15th Nov 17, 6:29 AM
    • 3,957 Posts
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    csgohan4
    • #4
    • 15th Nov 17, 6:29 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Nov 17, 6:29 AM
    the EA works for the vendor . not you, unless you want to the vendor's fees
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 15th Nov 17, 8:26 AM
    • 2,029 Posts
    • 3,052 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • #5
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:26 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:26 AM
    I have made an offer on a property which has now been accepted. The offer was made in written form and subject to a number of conditions e.g. the property to be taken off the market including the estate agent's website.

    While I have got the ball rolling by instructing a solicitor and sorting out mortgage/ surveyor i.e. incurring costs, I have now found that the property is still listed on the estate agent's website with "Under Offer" slapped on it. Can I ask the estate agent to remove the listing given the offer was accepted along with its conditions and this is a blatant violation of it?
    Originally posted by aamstrob
    Ultimately you can't ask the estate agent to do anything. (Well, you can ask, but they will refuse). You don't have any contract or agreement with the estate agent. They are simply a go-between in your agreement with the vendor, for whom they work.

    If anyone has ignored your agreement, it is the vendor. They could instruct the estate agent to remove their property from the website, as long as that doesn't contradict any contract they have with the estate agent. But you can't, any more than I can, because the estate agent is nothing to do with you.
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 15th Nov 17, 8:36 AM
    • 1,418 Posts
    • 1,865 Thanks
    shortcrust
    • #6
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:36 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:36 AM
    I have made an offer on a property which has now been accepted. The offer was made in written form and subject to a number of conditions e.g. the property to be taken off the market including the estate agent's website.

    While I have got the ball rolling by instructing a solicitor and sorting out mortgage/ surveyor i.e. incurring costs, I have now found that the property is still listed on the estate agent's website with "Under Offer" slapped on it. Can I ask the estate agent to remove the listing given the offer was accepted along with its conditions and this is a blatant violation of it?
    Originally posted by aamstrob
    As I recently said in another thread, sellers consider the attractiveness of the buyer as well as their offer. My vendor sold to me at a lower price because she felt she was being bullied by the other prospective buyer.

    If my buyer was so worried about gazumping I’d start to worry I was selling too cheaply.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 15th Nov 17, 8:40 AM
    • 5,408 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #7
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:40 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:40 AM
    You can certainly discuss it with the EA.

    But ultimately, the only real leverage you have is to say that you will walk away unless they remove it from the website.

    Assuming you are a serious buyer, it's not in the EA's interests to look for people to 'gazump' you. That would just delay the sale, which delays them getting their commission.

    (The few extra pounds the EA would get in commission from a higher offer wouldn't be worth the delay/risk.)
    • ceh209
    • By ceh209 15th Nov 17, 8:44 AM
    • 694 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    ceh209
    • #8
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:44 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Nov 17, 8:44 AM
    In your situation I would certainly prefer if it said 'Sold STC' rather than 'Under Offer'. To me, Under Offer implies there's been an offer which the vendors are considering, but haven't yet accepted, and they're willing to have more viewings.
    Excuse any mis-spelt replies, there's probably a cat sat on the keyboard
    • Surrey_EA
    • By Surrey_EA 15th Nov 17, 9:24 AM
    • 1,235 Posts
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    Surrey_EA
    • #9
    • 15th Nov 17, 9:24 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Nov 17, 9:24 AM
    In your situation I would certainly prefer if it said 'Sold STC' rather than 'Under Offer'. To me, Under Offer implies there's been an offer which the vendors are considering, but haven't yet accepted, and they're willing to have more viewings.
    Originally posted by ceh209
    Under offer and sold subject to contract essentially mean the same thing, it is really down to the individual preferences of the EA which term they use.

    I don't know anyone who marks a property as 'under offer' when the vendor is simply considering an offer, but has yet to accept it.
    • Slinky
    • By Slinky 15th Nov 17, 9:25 AM
    • 4,688 Posts
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    Slinky

    Assuming you are a serious buyer, it's not in the EA's interests to look for people to 'gazump' you. That would just delay the sale, which delays them getting their commission.

    (The few extra pounds the EA would get in commission from a higher offer wouldn't be worth the delay/risk.)
    Originally posted by eddddy
    It's not in the interests of the EA to muck up this sale, they would rather other interested people bought their other unsold properties.
    • Lokolo
    • By Lokolo 15th Nov 17, 9:29 AM
    • 19,812 Posts
    • 14,861 Thanks
    Lokolo
    Under offer and sold subject to contract essentially mean the same thing, it is really down to the individual preferences of the EA which term they use.

    I don't know anyone who marks a property as 'under offer' when the vendor is simply considering an offer, but has yet to accept it.
    Originally posted by Surrey_EA
    If they mean the same thing, then why are they both there?

    If I were the OP I would also want it to say Sold STC, rather than Under Offer. To me Under Offer would indicate that the vendor is still open to other offers.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 15th Nov 17, 9:31 AM
    • 2,029 Posts
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    If they mean the same thing, then why are they both there?
    Originally posted by Lokolo
    Both where? In Rightmove? You would have to ask them, but I would assume because the users of Rightmove have asked for them to both be there, because some like one and some like the other.
    • Surrey_EA
    • By Surrey_EA 15th Nov 17, 9:41 AM
    • 1,235 Posts
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    Surrey_EA
    If they mean the same thing, then why are they both there?

    If I were the OP I would also want it to say Sold STC, rather than Under Offer. To me Under Offer would indicate that the vendor is still open to other offers.
    Originally posted by Lokolo
    No idea!

    But there really is no difference between a property marked as 'under offer' and one marked as 'sold, subject to contract.'

    It means the vendor has accepted an offer put forward by a prospective buyer, but the property has yet to exchange contracts.
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 15th Nov 17, 9:49 AM
    • 9,796 Posts
    • 12,420 Thanks
    hazyjo
    So long as they're not showing anyone else round, I couldn't care what they label it as. Perfectly normal to show as 'under offer'. If you're that worried, get a mate to ring, pretend to be interested, and see if they're still conducting viewings.
    2017 wins: Opera tickets; film preview; lipstick; Ideal Home Show tickets + afternoon tea & bottle of Champagne; 2 cases of NKD; notebook; bath rack; books; film Premiere; Broadchurch DVDs; lipbalms; hamper (food/wine/Echo Dot/Jo Malone goodies); Avon lippies; cowhide rug; Windsor luxury break, foundation; Flybe flight
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 15th Nov 17, 10:03 AM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    Lots of detailed thoughts about the legal position of 'under offer' but the bottom line is you can ask, they may refuse. Whether or not marking under offer is removed from the market, practically, you can't enforce conditions of your offer. If they breach, your only remedy is to withdraw it which you can do anyway.

    So its a negotiation. You can say you'll only continue spending money on the purchase if they do xyz. They can comply or call your bluff. Then you have to decide whether you want to continue or pull out.
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 15th Nov 17, 10:19 AM
    • 3,786 Posts
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    DaftyDuck
    Don't forget that the agent will want to leave the property up as SSTC or Under Offer. It's their best tool in selling their services to all the other punters trawling around eight direful agents, trying to decide who might be "best" at marketing their hovel. It's more now advertising for the agent than the seller.

    Sure, if the agent is happy to remove it, let them, but you really want to curry favour with them if you can. I have never pressed to have a house removed from Right move at this stage, and don't believe, on balance, it would necessarily work to my advantage.
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 15th Nov 17, 10:23 AM
    • 3,121 Posts
    • 6,393 Thanks
    phoebe1989seb
    It is odd how different EAs do things.

    We viewed a house within a couple of days of it coming onto the market that was on at a certain 'guide price', made an offer of that guide and said it was on condition that it was removed from the market (naive, I know!).

    The vendors opted to increase the guide price, so as shortcrust says I guess they thought they were selling too cheaply having received a guide price offer so early on

    According to the EA there have been other offers since ours but they are not accepting further viewings - haven't checked this out though - it is not marked as 'under offer' because as yet it isn't. The vendors are still deliberating which to accept.

    Otoh, we accepted an offer on our house a few weeks ago. Without consulting us our EA removed it from RM etc, having not marked it as SSTC or under offer. When we queried this, they said it was their policy to do so, not that the buyer had requested it. Our for sale board is still up - not marked as 'sold' - and the other day we received a note through the door from someone interested in viewing (which we ignored)........
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
    • Slinky
    • By Slinky 15th Nov 17, 10:53 AM
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    • 20,274 Thanks
    Slinky
    There's a house along the road from where we've just bought that is marked sstc on RM but still has a for sale sign up outside.
    • ceh209
    • By ceh209 15th Nov 17, 11:41 AM
    • 694 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    ceh209
    There's a house along the road from where we've just bought that is marked sstc on RM but still has a for sale sign up outside.
    Originally posted by Slinky


    Are you down the road from me then?


    I'm SSTC on RM, the 'Sold' bit of the for sale sign hasn't ever turned up, I'm not bothered, I've got no intention of having any more viewings or accepting any other offers
    Excuse any mis-spelt replies, there's probably a cat sat on the keyboard
    • gingercordial
    • By gingercordial 15th Nov 17, 1:10 PM
    • 1,026 Posts
    • 1,012 Thanks
    gingercordial
    As well as it helping with advertising to potential other sellers as to how great that EA is at selling properties, a nice property might be left up for a while to attract in other potential buyers who can then be enticed to view other properties since the one they enquired about "sold this morning" or similar rubbish.

    I've walked past an estate agent proudly displaying several panels in the window with photos and details of my friend's beautiful house, which I knew for a fact had completed the previous week. The last time I moved (renting) the letting agent kept the listing up on Rightmove and their own website for about three weeks after we'd moved in as that was also very well presented in the photos so presumably something that would generate a lot of calls. Every time I've looked for somewhere to rent I have called many agencies to be told that what I was asking about had "just gone" but they had x, y and z other properties if I would like to view... It is just what they do.
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