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    • Woolners89
    • By Woolners89 14th Nov 17, 10:46 PM
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    Woolners89
    Advice please: Was I mis-sold my property?
    • #1
    • 14th Nov 17, 10:46 PM
    Advice please: Was I mis-sold my property? 14th Nov 17 at 10:46 PM
    Hi all;
    Long time lurker first time poster. I recently bought a house with my partner and would really appreciate some advice. When we bought the house, at the end of the garden there was a new outhouse, and a fence to the left and right side of the garden. The right hand side is new. In the deeds however, it mentioned that in 2000, the neighbours on the right hand side have right of way through our garden to get to their back garden, as they can only access it through their house otherwise. We thought this must be a historic entry and no longer in use (the deeds also mention neighbours being allowed to use the now non existent toilet in the garden!). The owner did not mention anything and also said on the TA6 form that the boundaries had not changed and did not mention any rights of access etc. 3 months after buying, the neighbours are having a gate put into the fence. This will allow them to walk across our garden and down an alley to the fronts of the houses. Not ideal! However, with it being on the deeds that they have right of access, my dispute is not with them or the gate. They say that when the ex owner of our house had the outhouse put in, it blocked off the old gate and he put a new fence in too on the agreement that he would put in a new gate in the near term future. However, he then sold up and left, didnít tell us about the agreement and didnít pay the neighbours for the gate. I feel like the seller deliberately concealed what we were buying on the TA6 information form. I feel we should be due compensation as this will lessen the value of the property. However, do we have no case because of the deeds?
    Thanks a lot in advance!
Page 1
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th Nov 17, 10:59 PM
    • 7,562 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    • #2
    • 14th Nov 17, 10:59 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Nov 17, 10:59 PM
    I would say you have no case because of the deeds.

    Can you fence off a back portion of your garden to make an alleyway that goes into theirs ?
    • maninthestreet
    • By maninthestreet 14th Nov 17, 11:02 PM
    • 15,132 Posts
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    maninthestreet
    • #3
    • 14th Nov 17, 11:02 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Nov 17, 11:02 PM
    So did your solicitor not spot this??
    "You were only supposed to blow the bl**dy doors off!!"
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 14th Nov 17, 11:06 PM
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    Cakeguts
    • #4
    • 14th Nov 17, 11:06 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Nov 17, 11:06 PM
    It is mentioned in the deeds so you knew that there was a ROW across your garden even if there wasn't a gate at the time. The neighbours also have a right of access to the toilet. The fact that the toilet is no longer there doesn't mean that the access has disappeared.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 15th Nov 17, 12:23 AM
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    00ec25
    • #5
    • 15th Nov 17, 12:23 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Nov 17, 12:23 AM
    the deeds state there is a ROW, you (/your solicitor?) are the one who failed to spot that. The only "mis-selling" here is your own failure to read what you were buying.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Nov 17, 12:33 AM
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    G_M
    • #6
    • 15th Nov 17, 12:33 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Nov 17, 12:33 AM
    Oh dear! Another post without paragraphs!
    ....When we bought the house, at the end of the garden there was a new outhouse, and a fence to the left and right side of the garden. The right hand side is new.

    In the deeds however, it mentioned that in 2000, the neighbours on the right hand side have right of way through our garden to get to their back garden, as they can only access it through their house otherwise.
    So this ROW only applied in 2000? I doubt it! Perhaps they obtained the ROW in 2000?

    We thought this must be a historic entry and no longer in use (the deeds also mention neighbours being allowed to use the now non existent toilet in the garden!).
    If it's in the Deeds, it's legally enforceable. Whether anyone uses the ROW or not is a different question.

    The owner did not mention anything
    Why should he unless you asked? Up to you to check the Deeds - which it seems you did. So you knew of this ROW.

    and also said on the TA6 form that the boundaries had not changed
    Has the boundary changed? You've not suggested this; a ROW is not a boundary change.

    and did not mention any rights of access etc.
    Did the TA6 ask about ROWs?

    3 months after buying, the neighbours are having a gate put into the fence. This will allow them to walk across our garden and down an alley to the fronts of the houses.
    Presumably this is along their ROW. So what's the problem?

    Not ideal! However, with it being on the deeds that they have right of access, my dispute is not with them or the gate.Whiew! Good.

    They say that when the ex owner of our house had the outhouse put in, it blocked off the old gate and he put a new fence in too on the agreement that he would put in a new gate in the near term future.
    Has your neighbour shown you this agreement?

    However, he then sold up and left, didn’t tell us about the agreement and didn’t pay the neighbours for the gate. I feel like the seller deliberately concealed what we were buying on the TA6 information form.
    See Q above.

    I feel we should be due compensation as this will lessen the value of the property. However, do we have no case because of the deeds?
    Thanks a lot in advance!
    Originally posted by Woolners89
    The neighbour may have a claim against you for the cost of the gate, though I doubt it. If so, you could try to claim that cost in turn against the seller. Both claims are more likely to fail than succeed.

    You have no claim for compensation over the neighbour's use of his ROW. You knew about it and went ahead with the purchase in that knowledge.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Nov 17, 12:44 AM
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 15th Nov 17, 12:44 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Nov 17, 12:44 AM
    Just had a quick look at TA6.

    How did the seller answer 8.5?
    • Woolners89
    • By Woolners89 15th Nov 17, 6:29 AM
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    Woolners89
    • #8
    • 15th Nov 17, 6:29 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Nov 17, 6:29 AM
    Fair enough! We’ll put it down to first time buyers inexperience. He left 8.5 blank, now I know why! Thanks for the replies.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 15th Nov 17, 7:00 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #9
    • 15th Nov 17, 7:00 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Nov 17, 7:00 AM
    I found neighbours going across my garden - and 8.5 was the first thing I checked and that was also blank.

    BUT - there wasn't anything in my Deeds giving the neighbours the right to traverse my garden and that's the difference. Yours does have something in the Deeds saying they have ROW. So I wouldnt be expecting them to come in to use a non-existent loo either - but I would have been wary that they seemed to still have the right to walk across my garden in your position AND they had a logical reason to do so (ie accessing their house from the back). So your neighbours have both logical reason and Deeds entry.

    So - yes in a word - the seller pulled a fast one on the neighbours (promising to put in a gate later) and then a fast one on you (lying by omission about them having ROW). But whether you can do anything about it is another question....and I suspect the seller will get away with it (because it's in the Deeds - and their excuse will be "Shoulda read them" - even though the onus was on them to tell you).
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 15-11-2017 at 7:07 AM.
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • Woolners89
    • By Woolners89 15th Nov 17, 7:05 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Woolners89
    Yeah, you’re right. I should have realised the implications in that just because there is no gate it doesn’t mean the ROW can’t be requested / enforced at a later date. That’s my first time buyer naivety. I’ll get over it I guess! Thanks.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 15th Nov 17, 7:10 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Not so much "first time buyer naivety". More likely you're a nice person and the vendor isnt. Someone basically decent won't think of things like that because they wouldnt do them
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
    • haras_nosirrah
    • By haras_nosirrah 15th Nov 17, 7:17 AM
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    haras_nosirrah
    could you fence off a little walkway so that the neighbours have a path from their garden to the alleyway - doesn't have to be anything big and sacrificing a small strip of garden may be worth it for some privacy.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 15th Nov 17, 7:55 AM
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    theartfullodger
    Advice please: Was I mis-sold my property?
    Originally posted by Woolners89
    No, but it sounds like you miss-bought....

    Better luck (& diligence) next time...
    • harrys dad
    • By harrys dad 15th Nov 17, 9:43 AM
    • 1,833 Posts
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    harrys dad
    What did your solicitor advise you about the ROW?
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 15th Nov 17, 11:26 AM
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    ReadingTim
    Not so much "first time buyer naivety". More likely you're a nice person and the vendor isnt. Someone basically decent won't think of things like that because they wouldnt do them
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    People's niceness and decency often goes out of the window when money is involved, especially the hundred of thousands of pounds property costs.

    I guess the real question is how the OP responds when they come to sell the place: be a nice/decent person and risk the buyer offering less or pulling out when they learn about the ROW, or keep quiet and hope they don't notice...?!?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Nov 17, 11:39 AM
    • 41,883 Posts
    • 48,467 Thanks
    G_M
    Fair enough! We’ll put it down to first time buyers inexperience. He left 8.5 blank, now I know why! Thanks for the replies.
    Originally posted by Woolners89
    Well arguably you could make a claim. Have a look at the instructions for the seller on the TA6.

    However
    1) what would be the valuue of your loss? How much would/could you claim?
    2) very uncertain whether you'd win - could go either way. You could discuss with solicitor for better advice
    3) time. Stress. Money. It will cost you all 3.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 15th Nov 17, 4:54 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Personally - I'd say the odds with a claim are weighted very heavily against OP - because of the fact it's written down in the Deeds.

    Yeh...I know...I know...and just which of us does read the Deeds with fine toothcomb and cynical mind prior to buying a house? Not a lot of us I guess - but the vendor can say that and judge would probably agree with them (even though said judge would probably know the vendor should have told OP verbally and deliberately didnt do so).
    #MeToo

    Why should our needs override the needs of all other living species? What makes us so special? (Brigit Strawbridge)
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