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    • stutoz
    • By stutoz 14th Nov 17, 12:08 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    stutoz
    Landlord charging to remove one item
    • #1
    • 14th Nov 17, 12:08 PM
    Landlord charging to remove one item 14th Nov 17 at 12:08 PM
    I recently moved out of a property and before doing so, i asked that a person come round and do a check list, so i knew exactly what i could leave and what i had to remove before moving out. It was agreed with their surveyor that, as they were going to sell the property, they would appreciate it if i could leave any items of furniture in good condition as this would benefit them. I have just received a bill for £88inc VAT as the landlord had to 'remove' a pop up clothes rail. This item was dismantled by myself and wrapped in a bag along with all necessary parts (about 4 attachments) in order to erect it. It was in excellent condition and had no parts missing.
    Myself and the landlord both have a copy of the surveyors report stating this, which was also signed but they are refusing to remove the £60 charge. They also stated that the price to remove this single item is agreed beforehand and is standard, despite it not stating in my original tenancy agreement.
    Is this something i should fight further? Not only is the charge massively excessive to remove a single item that was already bagged and wrapped, but i was specifically asked to leave behind any bits of furniture that could be used.
    Any advice would be much appreciated.
Page 1
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 14th Nov 17, 12:29 PM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #2
    • 14th Nov 17, 12:29 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Nov 17, 12:29 PM
    I recently moved out of a property and before doing so, i asked that a person come round and do a check list, so i knew exactly what i could leave and what i had to remove before moving out. - that's nice of them,
    they didn't have to.
    It was agreed with their surveyor that, as they were going to sell the property, they would appreciate it if i could leave any items of furniture in good condition as this would benefit them. - do you have this in writing listing which items should be left? The default is you have to remove anything that wasn't provided at the start of the tenancy. Also is there anything to say the surveyor's opinion doesn't represent the LL's? I have just received a bill for £88inc VAT as the landlord had to 'remove' a pop up clothes rail. - how big is it - fit in a standard car / van etc? If you don't have proof of an agreement to leave it then it's reasonable to charge a fair amount for 1hr time + van hire +
    petrol.
    This item was dismantled by myself and wrapped in a bag along with all necessary parts (about 4 attachments) in order to erect it. It was in excellent condition and had no parts missing.
    Myself and the landlord both have a copy of the surveyors report stating this, which was also signed but they are refusing to remove the £60 charge. - thought it was £88?
    They also stated that the price to remove this single item is agreed beforehand and is standard, despite it not stating in my original tenancy agreement.- ask them for a copy of where this was agreed.
    Is this something i should fight further? Not only is the charge massively excessive to remove a single item that was already bagged and wrapped, but i was specifically asked to leave behind any bits of furniture that could be used.
    Any advice would be much appreciated.
    Originally posted by stutoz
    1. Ask them for proof of where the amount was agreed or a breakdown for the cost if it reflects the expense of removal.
    2. Check if the deposit was protected.
    3. If yes, then file a single claim from the scheme citing the report stating you should leave furniture.
    4. If not protected, write a letter to the LL demanding the full deposit in settlement, stating you will claim the non protection 1-3x penalty if they don't comply in 7 days.
    • stutoz
    • By stutoz 14th Nov 17, 12:48 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    stutoz
    • #3
    • 14th Nov 17, 12:48 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Nov 17, 12:48 PM
    Hi, thanks for the quick response.
    I do have it in writing though it does not list individual items, it does state items of furniture. The item in question is small and would fit even the smallest of standard cars. the price was £60 - £88 including VAT. After i questioned this it has now been amended to £69.96 inc VAT.
    The deposit is in a DPS scheme so i will make a claim online and take it from there.
    Whilst they did not have to send the surveyor out to site, I requested it specifically to try and avoid a situation like this.
    Thanks again for your response.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 14th Nov 17, 1:12 PM
    • 684 Posts
    • 1,416 Thanks
    seashore22
    • #4
    • 14th Nov 17, 1:12 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Nov 17, 1:12 PM
    Maybe the landlord doesn't consider a pop up clothes rail to be an item of furniture and I have to say that I agree with him/her. It certainly isn't something that would enhance a property for viewing, which I assume is the reason for wanting some decent furniture around the house.

    The removal fee seems high though.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 14th Nov 17, 2:16 PM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #5
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:16 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:16 PM
    Maybe the landlord doesn't consider a pop up clothes rail to be an item of furniture and I have to say that I agree with him/her. It certainly isn't something that would enhance a property for viewing, which I assume is the reason for wanting some decent furniture around the house.

    The removal fee seems high though.
    Originally posted by seashore22
    Agree, the default position is OP must remove everything so it's upto them to prove an alternative agreement. The 'surveyor's statement to leave furniture may not cut it to definitely cover a pop up rail, hence why I'd provide both evidence / arguments to the deposit scheme
    1) surveyor's comments
    2) real cost of removal
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 14th Nov 17, 2:25 PM
    • 18,541 Posts
    • 14,265 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #6
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:25 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:25 PM
    £88 is not £60 + VAT unless there is a special rate that I don't know about of 47% for pop-up clothes rails. One of those figures must be incorrect.
    • pinklady21
    • By pinklady21 14th Nov 17, 2:30 PM
    • 267 Posts
    • 157 Thanks
    pinklady21
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:30 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:30 PM
    Neither is the amended amount of £69.96 the same as £60 plus VAT. Someone has trouble with their arithmetick!
    • chappers
    • By chappers 14th Nov 17, 2:51 PM
    • 2,948 Posts
    • 1,698 Thanks
    chappers
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:51 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 17, 2:51 PM
    Bloody pendants I think the OP explained the charges in post #3.
    who cares whether it's £60 or £88 that isn't the issue.
    I am inclined to agree with the OP though, the LL agreed to some furniture being left to, I presume help market the property. to be quibbling over a clothes rail is a bit petty.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Nov 17, 3:15 PM
    • 16,054 Posts
    • 39,920 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 17, 3:15 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 17, 3:15 PM
    Ridiculous to charge that amount. I'm confused by the mention of you leaving furniture in good condition though, whose furniture? Surely not you, or is it a case that it suited you to leave your old furniture behind? Even if that is the case, you did them a favour that benefited them, so they would have some cheek to charge you for one extra item left that could easily be disposed of.
    • stutoz
    • By stutoz 14th Nov 17, 3:21 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    stutoz
    Hi, yes it was all my furniture which i had paid for, including some expensive items. I left them as i no longer needed them but was happy to dispose/sell, yet when they said they would like them, I was happy to oblige. The LL has responded saying they cannot 'gift' a clothes rail yet they are more than happy to accept Venetian blinds, a glass shower screen and various other small items. I fail to see the difference and like some of you have pointed out, the fee seems overly excessive to remove a single, small pop-up clothes rail.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 14th Nov 17, 3:40 PM
    • 684 Posts
    • 1,416 Thanks
    seashore22
    Am I right in assuming that venetian blinds and shower screen would have been fittings, rather than furniture? Did you fit them? You would have to make good if you removed them?

    It would seem that not having to remove them and repair the damage would have suited you too.

    My daughter left some items in her previous let - table and chairs and a wardrobe in excellant condition. The property only had a garden table and chairs (in the house) when she moved in and no wardrobe. This was only done with the agreement of the landlord to each item and suited both of them. Did you get precise agreement as to what was being left? In my opinion pop up clothes rails are more in the category of "stuff" than furniture.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 14th Nov 17, 3:44 PM
    • 684 Posts
    • 1,416 Thanks
    seashore22
    Actually having read your last post I am more on the landlords side, but there may be a misunderstanding here.

    You mention that the landlord was selling and couldn't "gift" the clothes rail, but could "gift" the blinds etc. That makes perfect sense. Blinds and shower screens are fixtures and fittings, a dismantled clothes rail dumped in the corner of a room is not in the same category at all.

    Having said all that, if I was the landlord I would have put the rail in the back of my car and taken it to the nearest charity shop.
    • do163600
    • By do163600 14th Nov 17, 3:46 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    do163600
    Bloody pendants I think the OP explained the charges in post #3.
    Originally posted by chappers

    Err, no. As has already been pointed out, neither of those figures make sense.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 14th Nov 17, 3:51 PM
    • 684 Posts
    • 1,416 Thanks
    seashore22
    Op, this reminds me of a recent thread. The landlord on that one would have been delighted to accept anything you cared to leave.
    • stutoz
    • By stutoz 14th Nov 17, 4:03 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    stutoz
    I understand the points above, but again, nothing was specified, which i guess could work both ways. the fee still seems extremely high for such a small item. I have now taken the matter up with the DPS so will have to submit my 'evidence' for the remaining monies and wait and see what happens.
    In order to solve the VAT debate that seems to be simmering, the cost was £58.30 with VAT of £11.66, bringing the total owed to £69.96. Apologies to anyone offended by my rounding of figures
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 14th Nov 17, 4:31 PM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    I understand the points above, but again, nothing was specified, which i guess could work both ways. - no, the default position is you have to leave it how you found it, so remove anything that wasn't provided. You are only relieved of that obligation if there is a sufficiently specific agreement with the LL (or his representative the surveyor) to the contrary. Either the DPS arbitration think
    a. 'furniture' includes a dismantled rail
    b. 'furniture' doesn't include a dismantled rail
    c. No agreement exists re the dismantled rail as its too vague.
    a-> you win; b or c -> LL wins, can deduct something.

    the fee still seems extremely high for such a small item. - agree its high, maybe not extremely.. if b/c above then the LL can charge for petrol, dumping fees, time to drive to property, load, drive to dump.. I have now taken the matter up with the DPS so will have to submit my 'evidence' for the remaining monies and wait and see what happens.
    In order to solve the VAT debate that seems to be simmering, the cost was £58.30 with VAT of £11.66, bringing the total owed to £69.96. Apologies to anyone offended by my rounding of figures- no offence, just people trying to clarify and help incase there's a mistake you didn't spot. Since you did spot it,
    no harm.
    Originally posted by stutoz
    Agree all you can do is wait for the DPS decision or settle for something in the middle with the LL.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 14th Nov 17, 4:52 PM
    • 15,323 Posts
    • 20,874 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Dear landlord,

    There seems to be some confusion over the furniture left behind.

    I was intending to sell my furniture, but upon discussion with the agent it was agreed that some furniture would be left behind to help sell the property.

    If this furniture is not to your liking, then I propose that you give me the opportunity to remove it all, and you can then have photos taken with an empty property.

    Given the furniture was left free of charge as a kind gesture, then it is unfair for you to then pick and choose which items you want.

    If you continue to claim £88 from my deposit, I withdraw my gesture of good will and will then counter claim for the second hand value of all furniture left.

    Kind regards,

    YOU
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 14th Nov 17, 5:13 PM
    • 2,786 Posts
    • 2,790 Thanks
    cjdavies
    I'm with op, landlord wanted to keep some furnature then starts charging to remove a single item as doesn't like it.

    Shame it's too late from post 10 to take all your items back or is it?

    The bloody cheek of this year, I hope you get the full deposit from the deposit protection service.
    Last edited by cjdavies; 14-11-2017 at 5:21 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Nov 17, 5:18 PM
    • 905 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    Comms69
    Can a LL charge for removal of property - yes. However under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act the OP should be entitled to collect it


    http://www.landlordlegalsolutions.co.uk/cms/document/Guide_to_tenants_possessions_left_at_property__LLS _.pdf
    • chappers
    • By chappers 15th Nov 17, 12:25 AM
    • 2,948 Posts
    • 1,698 Thanks
    chappers
    Err, no. As has already been pointed out, neither of those figures make sense.
    Originally posted by do163600
    Errr... yes. The amount is totally irrelevant to the OPs question.

    I would just raise a dispute with the TDS, you have written proof that it was OK to leave items
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