Unenforceability & Template Letters II

lloydjones · 10 January 2010 at 11:15PM

I am in the process of challenging 3 loans, and have been since January 2009.

1. Since writing to Northern Rock to state their loan agreement was unenforceble I have heard nothing in 12 months, apart from an annual statement.

2. HSBC claim that my loan is enforceable but a solicitor stated it was NOT enforceable. HSBC have passed my account to Metropolitan and now I am being chased for the loan by DG Solicitors, they are also threatening me with legal proceedings. How likely is it to go to court? The agreement is not enforceable, will it go as far as County Court or is it scare tactics by DG Solicitors?

3.Finally, Cahoot did not provide me with any terms and conditons of my flexible loan thus making it unenforceable. They have now sent me a general terms and conditions booklet which was published long after my loan was taken out and claim that my loan is not unenforceable. Does this general booklet which I've never seen before, and never received when my loan started in 2002 make the loan enforceable? Details of my Cahoot loan can be found here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1573313

All help and advice of what to do next would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Go_on_martin_lewis · 11 January 2010 at 12:03AM

Hey, thanks for the replies.

regardless of whether or not they've sent me a typical replicated response they have made it clear that the outstanding sum is still due. and they have made it sound legal.

what do you mean by leave them to dwell??

i cant just stop paying them now??? what are the consequences. ive never missed a payment.

my account will still be on their system.

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Go_on_martin_lewis, as burton trade kitchens has said, the letter you have is a replica of several people's response from Barclays. It is not unique and addressed directly at you, moreso their legal response to our claim of unenforceability - they send the same template to all queries (its my 8th time of seeing it now).

Just leave them to dwell, don't worry.

No response is necessary.

never-in-doubt · 11 January 2010 at 2:55AM

Go_on_martin_lewis wrote: »

Hey, thanks for the replies.

regardless of whether or not they've sent me a typical replicated response they have made it clear that the outstanding sum is still due. and they have made it sound legal.

what do you mean by leave them to dwell??

i cant just stop paying them now??? what are the consequences. ive never missed a payment.

my account will still be on their system.

Hiya

You do understand that just because a debt is unenforceable does not mean it 'goes away' right? Basically, the debt, or more specifically, the term 'unenforceable' means the creditor cannot obtain judgement against you in court without the original agreement. So although it may be unenforceable, the debt does still exist and is still classed as being owed, but they cannot pursue you through the courts, meaning no CCJ/Court Order can be issued - period.

If they find the agreement in say 3 years time (highly unlikely by the way) then they can pursue you for the debt, of course after 6 years of last payment it would then become statute barred meaning it is gone forever.

So, back to you - you can carry on paying but then you achieve nothing; why pay if you do not have to? Of course it will leave you a default but that's why unenforceability is not to be used willy-nilly but more in cases of extreme desperation. If you can afford to pay and have an otherwise clean credit file then forget unenforceability as it will hinder you long-term.

I can make something sound 'legal' - especially if I want money from you! The fact this same letter has been issued to several people should tell you that it is as serious as those that read it, want it to be.....

That is my stand on this, up to you what you decide to do next. I cannot advise, however pay attention - the lender will never comply with any demand so long as you keep paying - it's like playing poker with fake money!

never-in-doubt · 11 January 2010 at 2:58AM

Wispa1 wrote: »

Hi Guys, hope you are all enjoying the lovely snow!!!

I wonder if you could pass your comments on whether you think MBNA have complied to my cca request please.

If they refer you to separate terms then those terms must be supplied and linked to the original page or you are correct, it would remain unenforceable. Similarly, it needs to contain ALL the prescribed terms, not just the credit limit.

Send the following: 3. CCA Query

never-in-doubt · 11 January 2010 at 2:59AM

chrisrzr wrote: »

Hi NID

Spurred on by initial sucess I am thinking of challenging the two CCAs which were sent to me on the following grounds:

MBNA - The CCA refers to section 9.1 which is not on the CCA or the latest T&Cs sent with it

NATWEST - The CCA makes no reference at all to APR or repayment schedule. It is in the T&Cs which were also sent (not sure if these were original or latest)

What do you think, are these grounds for unenforcability?

Many thanks

Both are mate (from what you've described) - just send the following off: 3. CCA Query

never-in-doubt · 11 January 2010 at 3:04AM

lloydjones wrote: »

1. Since writing to Northern Rock to state their loan agreement was unenforceble I have heard nothing in 12 months, apart from an annual statement.

Ok, as it's been so long now you need to be careful not to acknowledge it and bear in mind Statute Barred (6 years from date of first missed payment).

lloydjones wrote: »

2. HSBC claim that my loan is enforceable but a solicitor stated it was NOT enforceable. HSBC have passed my account to Metropolitan and now I am being chased for the loan by DG Solicitors, they are also threatening me with legal proceedings. How likely is it to go to court? The agreement is not enforceable, will it go as far as County Court or is it scare tactics by DG Solicitors?

Do you believe everything a solicitor says? i.e. why, exactly, is it unenforceable? The answer to that would determine the liklihood of it going to court. If your solicitor feels it is unenforceable then if they threaten court, you go back to the solicitor and ask them to file the defence - usually requesting strike-out, especially as they cannot take action on a disputed and unenforceable debt.

lloydjones wrote: »

3.Finally, Cahoot did not provide me with any terms and conditons of my flexible loan thus making it unenforceable. They have now sent me a general terms and conditions booklet which was published long after my loan was taken out and claim that my loan is not unenforceable. Does this general booklet which I've never seen before, and never received when my loan started in 2002 make the loan enforceable? Details of my Cahoot loan can be found here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1573313

From what you describe, it appears this is not enforceable, send the following letter and see what they come back with: 3. CCA Query

debt_obsessed · 11 January 2010 at 12:26PM

Hi there,

I've not posted on this thread for a while but have been reading through! Loving it!

Quick question, I have been dealing with BOS - Blair, Oliver Scott. On Thursday 14th Jan (Thurs) the 30 days will have expired on the account in dispute letter, they have not sent me any written communication but keep texting me a number to call them on (which I refuse to do). What's the next step if they don't reply by Thursday?

Wispa1 · 11 January 2010 at 1:51PM

never-in-doubt wrote: »

If they refer you to separate terms then those terms must be supplied and linked to the original page or you are correct, it would remain unenforceable. Similarly, it needs to contain ALL the prescribed terms, not just the credit limit.

Send the following: 3. CCA Query

Thanks NID - you are a star :T:T

lloydjones · 11 January 2010 at 6:48PM

Thanks for the advice N.I.D.

HSBC and Cahoot have issued me with defaults, can they do this if 'in dispute'? If so, how long will this affect my credit rating?

Cheers.

astravanman · 11 January 2010 at 8:07PM

Hi again. One of the creditors chasing money is Fashion World (catalogue comp). The last correspondence received from them was in November 09 when they threatened to pass the debt to a DCA if no payment was forthcoming. On 7/1/10 we sent the cca request + £1 statutory fee to fashion world but today (11/01/10) we received a letter from Wescot dca (the letter was dated 7/01/10) with the usual threats to pay up.

It looks like our CCA to FashionWorld has crossed in the post with them passing the debt onto Wescot to collect on their behalf. The CCA sent to FashionWorld is still within the 12+2 days so not yet defaulted - but as Wescot are now on the case do we just need to send them a copy of the CCA that was sent to fashion world?

Unenforceability & Template Letters II

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