Energy Saving Trust Q&A Centre

Shinglekicker · 1 December 2010 at 10:50AM

All well and good about the radiator panels, but can anyone tell me if the energy saving light bulbs are safe to use in rooms where original artwork/paintings/photographs are displayed?
I seem to remember seeing something about the energy saving ones causing fading in the same way as sunlight - something that the old style bulbs do not - but so far every representative of organisations promoting energy saving have ducked the issue when asked by me. If true it seems odd that the government, the EU, the manufacturers and all the organisations are promoting a product that will cause untold damage to the property of individuals, who may not realise until too late. And if it is true, why is the damage potential not more widely disseminated?

Energy_Saving_Trust_company_representative · 1 December 2010 at 11:38AM

Behemoth wrote: »

Do you have any advice about insulating solid walled houses?

I have a 3-bed semi built 1935 which has solid (9") walls.

Thanks

Hi Behemoth,

There are 2 types of insulation you can use on solid walls; internal and external.

Internal can be rigid boards or a flexible thermal lining that you apply to the inside walls of your home. Most types can be applied by yourself. Have a look at our database to find Energy Saving Trust Recommended products http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Find-Energy-Saving-Trust-Recommended-Products/browse/insulation/dry-lining;jsessionid=0c3e9e9f648697a107a800098818/?tc=mseforumestr

External covers the façade of your home so is most suitable if you are doing work to the outside of your home anyway. You may need planning permission so don’t forget to contact your local planning office to check. You’ll need to get a professional installer to help you with this; our advice centres can help you find one. Call 0800 512 012 to speak to your local centre. It does have the advantage that it won’t affect your every day life as it is installed. Energy Saving Trust Recommended products can be found here http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Find-Energy-Saving-Trust-Recommended-Products/browse/insulation/external-wall;jsessionid=1714715a0d372e316e760a66147e/?tc=mseforumestr

For more information on solid wall insulation we have a comprehensive guide on our website: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Home-improvements-and-products/Home-insulation-glazing/Solid-wall-insulation/?tc=mseforumestr or call the advice line on 0800 512 012 and an advisor will be able to answer any further questions you have.

oldmanout · 1 December 2010 at 2:00PM

I have a large old house which has had additional rooms build within the loft. I have placed rockwool insulation on top of the ceilings of these rooms but have not yet done anything with the walls. The walls of these rooms are stud partition with plywood on the outside and plasterboard on the inside. I wish to insulate these stud partition walls and think that the simplest solution may be to attach some form of insulation to the plywood exterior of the walls. It is protected form the weather as it is within the loft. Something soft or flexible would be easier to handle as I would be working within the confined spaces within the loft. What can you suggest?

EnergyGuy_2 · 1 December 2010 at 3:34PM

To teh Energy Savings Trust -

I manage a 25 unit multifamily builidng with a gas boiler. I am looking at upgrading the boiler feed pumps. Currently I have 4 pumps. I have tracked the usage and I know they use 25,000 kwh during the winter. They must also pump during the summer - but that is only demand for residential hot water.

Have you evaluated upgrading to variable speed feed pumps?

During the summer, the building is using 8,000 kwh a month. How much of that do you think is boiler feed pumps?

What savings have you seen in th efield with new pumps?

Thanks,

Energy Guy

Energy_Saving_Trust_company_representative · 1 December 2010 at 4:02PM

Shinglekicker wrote: »

All well and good about the radiator panels, but can anyone tell me if the energy saving light bulbs are safe to use in rooms where original artwork/paintings/photographs are displayed?
I seem to remember seeing something about the energy saving ones causing fading in the same way as sunlight - something that the old style bulbs do not - but so far every representative of organisations promoting energy saving have ducked the issue when asked by me. If true it seems odd that the government, the EU, the manufacturers and all the organisations are promoting a product that will cause untold damage to the property of individuals, who may not realise until too late. And if it is true, why is the damage potential not more widely disseminated?

Hi Shinglekicker

Fluorescent energy saving bulbs are known to emit a small amount of UV light, but we are unaware of any potential damaging effect they could have when illuminating artwork.

We would suggest that an energy saving halogen spotlight could be used, or one of the new LED products that are becoming much more widespread. These offer the same performance or better over traditional bulbs while consuming significantly less energy.

Check out our range of Energy Saving Trust Recommended lighting in the link below to see which bulbs are the most efficient and energy saving http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Find-Energy-Saving-Trust-Recommended-Products/browse/lighting/?tc=mseforumestr or call the advice line on 0800 512 012 and an advisor will be able to answer any further questions you have.

Energy_Saving_Trust_company_representative · 1 December 2010 at 5:33PM

Cardew wrote: »

However from the CERT report you appear to have missed this most important caveat:

You have used the figures for CO2 reduction they quote and converted them to savings of £1 to £6 a year. However those savings only apply to houses with either solid walls or walls with unfilled cavities.

Given that the majority of house? in UK have cavity insulation, even those very low savings do not apply - in fact they are a waste of money(at any price) in a house with cavity insulation.

Your report does not make that clear.

Would you agree?

Thanks Cardew.

If radiator panels were fitted on filled cavity walls then the saving would be minimal as the cavity wall insulation would keep the heat in, as would the reflective panels, but in a more effective way. We do recommend first and foremost insulating your home's walls and loft as these measures have the greatest effect upon the insulation rates of your home. We do get enquiries relating to the savings of radiator panels specifically and we have calculated these savings to give an indication of the range that could be achieved. The data we currently use is the more robust source available but due to the downfalls you have pointed out , it should be regarded as a guide rather than highly accurate savings for those that relate to all household circumstances.

I hope this helps.

Cardew · 1 December 2010 at 6:42PM

Energy_Saving_Trust_company_representative wrote: »

Thanks Cardew.

If radiator panels were fitted on filled cavity walls then the saving would be minimal as the cavity wall insulation would keep the heat in, as would the reflective panels, but in a more effective way. We do recommend first and foremost insulating your home's walls and loft as these measures have the greatest effect upon the insulation rates of your home. We do get enquiries relating to the savings of radiator panels specifically and we have calculated these savings to give an indication of the range that could be achieved. The data we currently use is the more robust source available but due to the downfalls you have pointed out , it should be regarded as a guide rather than highly accurate savings for those that relate to all household circumstances.

I hope this helps.

Thank you,

Personally I didn't need convincing that for the majority of houses these panels are a waste of money.

However there are many companies selling panels at high prices and with outrageous claims of savings and IMO the EST should state bluntly that with cavity wall insulation, any savings are negligble.

Cardew · 2 December 2010 at 12:06PM

CathyDebenham wrote: »

The detail is expected to be announced before Christmas, and it is expected that air source heat pumps for domestic use will be included from the beginning, although not for commercial use until 2012. There's an update by the chairman of the solar trade association following meetings with DECC on the yougen.co.uk site (I'm too new a user to post a link, but send me a message if you want the link)

Link is here:

http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/1589/Renewable+heat+incentive+-+the+latest+news/

What does this mean?

Air source heat pumps (ASHP) – there will be a tariff for the domestic sector. Non-domestic air source heat pumps will not be included in 2011. Air to water and air to air heat pumps (which are difficult to meter) will not be included initially.

No air to air or air to water?

zeupater · 2 December 2010 at 3:31PM

Energy_Saving_Trust_company_representative wrote: »

Thanks Cardew.

If radiator panels were fitted on filled cavity walls then the saving would be minimal as the cavity wall insulation would keep the heat in, as would the reflective panels, but in a more effective way. We do recommend first and foremost insulating your home's walls and loft as these measures have the greatest effect upon the insulation rates of your home. We do get enquiries relating to the savings of radiator panels specifically and we have calculated these savings to give an indication of the range that could be achieved. The data we currently use is the more robust source available but due to the downfalls you have pointed out , it should be regarded as a guide rather than highly accurate savings for those that relate to all household circumstances.

I hope this helps.

Hi

On cavity filled walls I calculated my saving from reflective wall covering as being <£2/Year for the entire house (12 external wall radiators) ..... all internal wall radiators have no backing as the absorbed heat adds to the building's thermal mass ...

Perhaps details reflecting the updated information in your reply above could be included on the EST website .... I'd use the 'contact us' pane on the website to suggest this, however, every time I've used it in the past, the only return contact has been an automated reply saying that someone would contact within x working days ..... probably about a year since I last used it, still waiting ...... :rotfl:

zeupater · 2 December 2010 at 3:56PM

Cardew wrote: »

Link is here:

http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/1589/Renewable+heat+incentive+-+the+latest+news/

What does this mean?

No air to air or air to water?

Hi

That's exactly what I thought ... If the ASHP is AS, what can the HP use to transfer the heat if not air or water ? .... oil ??

Anyway, I changed my gas boiler just over a year ago (before the trade in scheme

) and I'm definately not likely to let anyone rip it out to fit an ASHP just to grab the RHI ..... I'd possibly have something like a 6kW-8kW system for Autumn/Spring use if a combination of gas & ASHP were allowed under the RHI scheme, but gas would be a cheaper heating source by far whilst the outside temperatures are where they are at the moment ..... it hasn't been above freezing for almost a week, averaging below -5C overnight, dropping to well below -10C for extended periods .... I'd take a lot of convincing otherwise ..

Regards

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