Ebay/Paypal seller protection??

paypalvictim · 13 July 2017 at 7:34PM

Hi, I have posted this elsewhere and it was suggested that this was the forum .
I am a private seller on ebay and sold a VCR player in April in full working order. The buyer messaged me over 6 weeks later saying that it had only been used a few times & was no longer working. They then escalated the claim to paypal who took the money out of our account leaving a debit balance. We passed evidence to paypal that the buyer had sent saying that the VCR worked upon arrival as she was asking for money back on 'not as described' basis. The item was an old piece of electronics (I need to clarify it was advertised as working but used...obviously as who sells brand new VCR) . Paypal found in buyers favour and I had threatening call to put money into account or debt collection will be put on us. What can I do ?

The buyer had used the item for 2 months and Paypal are basing their decision on the buyer saying it wasnt working on arrival and even though they agreed that they had had the VCR for a long time before claiming it didn't work. Where do private sellers who clear their attics as per the ebay campaign stand when a used item can be used for a period and then the buyer gets all their money back up to 6 months later. Very confusing,help appreciated please.
Thank you.

theonlywayisup · 13 July 2017 at 8:22PM

And breathe.

There is a gap in the procedure.....what happened when Paypal ruled in the buyer's favour. Did they return?

Pun · 14 July 2017 at 12:28AM

Have you forwarded (to Paypal) the message from the buyer saying it had been used a few times (i.e. was working when they got it)?

bxboards · 14 July 2017 at 8:46AM

Paypal and Ebay do not protect sellers in cases like this. It's impossible to have a a buyer protection program AND a seller protection program at the same time, I would estimate that in 99% of times Ebay and Paypal will always decide in favour of the buyer.

About the only real 'protection' you have is in item not received cases - where if you have tracking showing delivery you may win. or with chargebacks if you have proof of postage but for 'not as described' - forget it, they will not 'investigate' and will just tell that buyer to return it, or even just refund them without a return 7 to 10 days later.

In this sort of case, I think pretty much all experienced users will admit Ebay and Paypal will favour the buyer, they are unlikely to read any 'evidence' you submit, and even if you do, ignore it. I would love to see some stats. on how often sellers win, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 1% of the time.

PS: I did think about contacting the Advertising Standards Agency as on one of my buyer accounts I keep getting nagged to sell. with emailed claims about how safe it is, and how there is Seller Protection. I may do this just to be awkward.

NBLondon · 14 July 2017 at 9:15AM

bxboards wrote: »

I would love to see some stats. on how often sellers win, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 1% of the time.

I won once - about 3 years ago. A used mobile air-conditioner. It was working when put up for sale. The buyer paid cash on collection - and didn't test (which was offered) before handing over the cash. He claimed a week later that it didn't work. I made the case that it was working when he took ownership and I can't be responsible if he and his mate broke it getting it into their van or on the way home. Mind you, the fact that I had actual folding money helped as PayPal couldn't get involved.

ETA - What Pun said... if the buyer has admitted it was working on arrival and you gave that evidence to eBay (not PayPal) then their case should have been rejected.

ballisticbrian · 14 July 2017 at 9:43AM

Mind you, the fact that I had actual folding money helped as PayPal couldn't get involved.

Sorry but what is the relevancy of this when the whole thread is about a PayPal case?

paypalvictim · 14 July 2017 at 10:04AM

They have returned the broken VCR(which they broke I might add). The procedure doesn't allow for the buyer to not get money back it has a choice of partial refund(which buyer did not want),refund & they keep or return & refund....hobson's choice) as they had refunded buyer almost immediately.

paypalvictim · 14 July 2017 at 10:07AM

Yes evidence of buyers message saying that it had been used which pretty much (I thought) was a cast iron defence that it was as described. Paypal aren't engaging in discussion and are just sending stock answers back.

paypalvictim · 14 July 2017 at 10:11AM

Thank you for the info I was thinking that ebay should be involved although buyer had gone to paypal. It does bring into question the mismatch of ebay/paypal and how this is 'shifting sand' as far as private sellers are treated.

RFW · 14 July 2017 at 10:27AM

paypalvictim wrote: »

They have returned the broken VCR(which they broke I might add). The procedure doesn't allow for the buyer to not get money back it has a choice of partial refund(which buyer did not want),refund & they keep or return & refund....hobson's choice) as they had refunded buyer almost immediately.

If you've got the VCR back, your only redress at this stage is with the buyer.
I can't imagine it would be worth it or that we're talking a large sum of money here but, in theory, you could take a court claim against the buyer for breaking the item. You may win that case, it's also possible you wouldn't.

RFW · 14 July 2017 at 10:31AM

bxboards wrote: »

In this sort of case, I think pretty much all experienced users will admit Ebay and Paypal will favour the buyer, they are unlikely to read any 'evidence' you submit, and even if you do, ignore it. I would love to see some stats. on how often sellers win, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 1% of the time.

I won a few in the past. One I can think of was a wholesale lot that I'd sold (it was a product that was sold in Tesco at the time). Buyer tried to sell them on Ebay but had overpriced them and also overpaid in the first place (it was an auction). A few attempts at selling later the buyer complained that they weren't to standard and he wanted a full refund. I sent Ebay a link to the Tesco product and to the listings where the buyer had attempted to sell them and failed. They found in my favour, I think the buyer was suspended too.

Ebay/Paypal seller protection??

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