Violent special needs/autism teenager help!
Comments
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Hi all,
I know from regular reading their are a lot of parents here with the knowledge i need.
As of tonight my uncle has given me permission to speak on his behalf with the social worker regarding my Niece, and said social worker has been sent an e-mail telling her as much.
My niece is 14/15 with an assessed mental age of 8/9 with a secondary diagnosis of autism, conditions she has had since birth.
My uncle and his family are no longer able to cope with her care.
Tonight the police were called to deal with my Niece physically assaulting her parents, this is a regular occurrence and the Police officer said his report with be scathing towards the support they are receiving from social services.
My Niece does not act out at school or social clubs but has been assaulting my Uncle and Aunt 'since the moment she wakes to the time she sleeps' for almost 5 years. [he was embarrassed to tell us.]
My sister who has worked with autistic children before went round tonight to see if we can calm her down, the Police officer picked us up and told us if we can't calm her down they will have no choice but to take her to the cells for the night.
My sister then spent the last 4 hours being beaten black and blue using techniques she had learnt to try and get her to sleep, she was still awake when we left though calmer.
They have told me they want her to be put in a suitable boarding situation as they are no longer able to cope. My uncle would like her back in the Holidays but not my Aunt. [ i think this is her depression and the stress of the immediate situation, truth to tell i think she will miss her terribly.]
Her twin [no health problems] is sitting her GCSE's and is becoming extremely stressed, her Mother is similarly stressed and is dealing with worsening depression. More importantly my Uncle is 63 has to take oxygen every night and as a result of the stress had a stroke a week ago and was in hospital for 2 days.
I worry about his health.
I need to know the quickest way to give them long term respite or to have her placed in a relevant boarding care home.
I have read the social report from a year ago initiated by a similar incident as tonight where the Police were called. There is a lot of talk of 'inconsistant parenting', there are police notifications on the report [4 in 2 months] and many other details.
Analysis of needs and risk states ' ~ is a Child in Need under section 17 of the children act 1989...'
There is an acknowledgement the parents are desperate for support to meet her needs and then are some recommendations that she will benefit from an independent carer, she recommends the implementation of a care package once the provision of universal services have been explored.
This was a year ago and as far as i'm aware they have not had a care package implemented or any carer brought in. Her class teacher from her special school came to help in the mornings because she was causing trouble getting ready for school but this was only for a few weeks, a community nurse has been involved for several years.
They have reached breaking point, how can i get them the help they need as quickly as possible. I'm going to contact the social worker and cc her manager about my concerns with regards to the report from a year ago being ignored.
What can be done and how do i go about getting it done quickly before my Uncle's next visit to Hospital is fatal?
Thank you so much, it took a lot for my Uncle to contact us and get us involved, he has been very private about it and says he is 'embarrassed'. I told him it is a situation anyone would struggle with never mind a pensioner with serious health problems and a wife with depression who also has the burden of being his carer!
Wow long. Please ask anything relevant questions as i said i know their are parents out there who's children have similar care needs.
Thank you so much.
A few points: It is very sad to read about your niece's situation and well done for supporting your relatives, they need it !
1.Maybe Social Care has not realised how bad it has been if your uncle was too quiet to shout out. I echo other people: He needs to describe the worst....
2. Sadly, I know from experiences that support for children on the spectrum who are violent/aggressive/self-harm is appalling in most areas....staff at agencies are often/mostly not trained to cope with 'real' challenging behaviour... best system used is now 'TEAM TEACH' which Education and Social Care's own Short Break units use but sadly, nothing is taught to parents....
3. It may a question of funding about residential placement....it is often the last resort due to expense and also if school, however helpful they may appear, state they are fine, Social care will have to fund it alone or with health only, a very unlikely scenario...you may find if you push the school a bit more they may not be as helpful sadly as stating for them, we cannot cope, does not look good on them....
4. It is the best interest of your niece to keep pushing but with them...your uncle must be clear and strong but there are no miracle places out there just waiting to manage these very complex and unhappy young people just like that. I know , you may not want to hear this but there not be a sudden solution that helps and helps your niece....
5. However, complain and complain now !! Ask for the procedures and even an e-mail would suffice as along as you clearly state it is a complaint...Social Care will do things more quickly if they can...get MP involved too
Buzzwords:
Just be honest about the harm and damages...maybe as you are a bit more removed, can draft something....
It sounds like things were promised but have not started but from practical experiences, there may be nothing out there...have you or Social Care looked into NAS? They have got outreach teams.....
All the bestYou have the right to remain silent.Anything you do say will be misquoted and then used against you
Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.
Bruce Lee0 -
A few answers to posts.
They aren't very pro-active people and aside from universal services [ymca etc.] they don't know about anything.
She has escalated because of lack of support, they are very much two parents that need very strong guidance and have minimal personal initiative sadly, my Sister has been cross with them in the past for burying their heads in the sand and not being more hands on.The saddest part is that the daughter may have escalated so much due to inconsistency and lack of input or support to the parents.
Her report mentions a Dr from CAMHS who suggested a structured routine, this is why the nurse [CTPLD] has been involved with behavioural management.I'd be asking for referrals to psychologist and psychiatrist.
Is it worth approaching CAMHS again?
The Police called them apparently it's just one guy in a room covering the whole county! He said he will 'pass the information on.' I get the feeling they are their just so the social services can say this box is ticked and someone is available.You could try to call out of hours Social Services and as for an urgent assessment of needs due to crisis situation.
This presumably led to the meeting with the social worker today, but with respects to practical help their was zero from the out of hours 'team'.
The police officer said he will be scathing in his report which will be looked at by their own vulnerable young adults team [?] and passed to the social services. They said if we couldn't calm her down they would have to put her in a cell because there was 'no other choice.'
They also said they are not suppose to arrest her due to mental capacity but would take her in until their Doctor assessed her and said they could not hold her any longer [ i suppose it's a temporary loophole for desperate situations].
This would be great but i'm not holding my breath.Another possibility may be that your areas SS has a contract for short term urgent care contract with social and health care providers that can provide emergency support at home at short notice.
Firefox some charities are involved but just the ones involve in 'universal services' i don't know of any for children on the verge of going into care like in this situation.
OP,does the parents GP have then down on their system as carers?Firstly,if not they should be,there seems to be a form of priority and support by doing so.
My Aunt is registered as my Uncle's carer, my Niece is on a waiting list with the charity that offers practical help to carers. Not sure if this is because My aunt is her registered carer or because she is a registered carer for my Uncle. I'm not sure which gives them access to this service.Also,if they go and see their GP about general health and wellbeing and their struggles with caring for their daughter the doc may offer (or they can ask) contact with social services based on this.
NLJ1520-
When i told my Uncle he may have to refuse to have her back he looked so sorrowful and broken.
When we arrived she was handcuffed on the bed, she didn't want to give the Police Officer the cuffs back when they said they were ready to remove them! Everything is a game really theirs no understanding of danger or seriousness.
She will ask if your angry with her as a reaction to you laughing and smiling at her, she has no real way of recognizing emotions. She also has some severe tics like chest tapping, obsessing on certain things to the detriment of everything else.
She's amazing but it's impossible now she has an adolescents strength with no idea of its repercussions, she will attack her parents unprovoked when they have their back to her and they are all watching tv, she will smash things up, fling food and crockery. I'm sure your familiar with it...
If they are forced to refuse to have her home and pass her care to social services how often can they see her and be involved in her life. Will they get frozen out either initially or long term?
Hi silly guy.
From March since the core assessment they have been trying everything, social services have registered many, many police incident reports describing the violence and the situation in graphic detail though it is in my Uncle's nature to be the quiet type and not make a fuss this was only until March. It's more a question that they are not the kind of people who know how to make a fuss, i knew straight away i would be involving the managers and MP.
Her Autism is 'secondary' will NAS still see her as a priority, i feel as if it is the autism that is causing the problems. Also social services have said at one point in the report that they don't believe the problems are down to her disability but the way she is handled at home [no doubt as school can manage], i think this is abominable.
What specific areas strike you as worthy of a complaint? I just want to get it right.
Thanks0 -
She has escalated because of lack of support, they are very much two parents that need very strong guidance and have minimal personal initiative sadly, my Sister has been cross with them in the past for burying their heads in the sand and not being more hands on.
And that will be one of the reasons that Social Care has maybe not been as quick as they could as the parents may keep downplaying the situations and they have no other source of evidence if school says all is fine....Her report mentions a Dr from CAMHS who suggested a structured routine, this is why the nurse [CTPLD] has been involved with behavioural management.
Is it worth approaching CAMHS again?
Yes and no....you are not losing anything but they dont often have the answer imo and can take months to respondThey also said they are not suppose to arrest her due to mental capacity but would take her in until their Doctor assessed her and said they could not hold her any longer [ i suppose it's a temporary loophole for desperate situations].
Yes, been there...they can hold the young person for a few hours but if the person would walk out then, they could not stop them....
[/QUOTE]
My Aunt is registered as my Uncle's carer, my Niece is on a waiting list with the charity that offers practical help to carers. Not sure if this is because My aunt is her registered carer or because she is a registered carer for my Uncle. I'm not sure which gives them access to this service.
Could be either if it from the Carer's Centre....When i told my Uncle he may have to refuse to have her back he looked so sorrowful and broken.
When we arrived she was handcuffed on the bed, she didn't want to give the Police Officer the cuffs back when they said they were ready to remove them! Everything is a game really theirs no understanding of danger or seriousness.
She will ask if your angry with her as a reaction to you laughing and smiling at her, she has no real way of recognizing emotions. She also has some severe tics like chest tapping, obsessing on certain things to the detriment of everything else.
She's amazing but it's impossible now she has an adolescents strength with no idea of its repercussions, she will attack her parents unprovoked when they have their back to her and they are all watching tv, she will smash things up, fling food and crockery. I'm sure your familiar with it...
If they are forced to refuse to have her home and pass her care to social services how often can they see her and be involved in her life. Will they get frozen out either initially or long term?
They will not be 'frozen out'...likely to be taken first onto a interim care order where they will retain Parental responsibilities and involved on all levels. Sharing possibly 49:51 for Social care as parents would state: We cannot fulfil our role without major support...may be asked about options where daughter can go but ultimately will have to go where there is a space....
If a place is found, parents will be asked to help settling in as much as possible but maybe not by being there...packing things and provide information what daughter likes, etc..... and may be asked to not see her first for a few days to allow her to settle down but this would depend on each situation.
This may extend into Short -term placements as the first option would always be to be returned to parents unless they are clearly say no...
Hope this helps You have the right to remain silent.Anything you do say will be misquoted and then used against you
Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.
Bruce Lee0 -
Hi silly guy.
From March since the core assessment they have been trying everything, social services have registered many, many police incident reports describing the violence and the situation in graphic detail though it is in my Uncle's nature to be the quiet type and not make a fuss this was only until March. It's more a question that they are not the kind of people who know how to make a fuss, i knew straight away i would be involving the managers and MP.
Her Autism is 'secondary' will NAS still see her as a priority, i feel as if it is the autism that is causing the problems. Also social services have said at one point in the report that they don't believe the problems are down to her disability but the way she is handled at home [no doubt as school can manage], i think this is abominable.
What specific areas strike you as worthy of a complaint? I just want to get it right.
Thanks
NAS would come out and undertake an assessment which Social Care would pay for if they are pushed to do so.
Without really knowing all the details, eg. what the Social Worker has done , it is difficult to suggest the areas to focus on....if your relatives kept saying : Yes, we are fine really then it is , if not popular, slightly unfair to put blame on Social Worker....
I would focus on not providing the services promised in the Core....the urgent action would need to be assessed now and on-going.....That' s why it is good to ask for time scales....if it was all wishy-washy then complain about it being wishy-washy....
if it says : Universal services, what was given to the parents re: places to go? Were they referred to a CAF (Common Assessment Framework)? Has this happened?You have the right to remain silent.Anything you do say will be misquoted and then used against you
Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.
Bruce Lee0 -
Racheldevon wrote: »Hi, I work with lots of child protection cases.
I would suggest that you make a formal complaint to the practice manager (this will be the social worker's direct line manager), and I would copy in the Operations Manager/Director for Social Care. If you put it as a formal complaint (and state this in your letter), they will have to initiate /follow their complaints procedures.
I would look back at the care plan, and agreed actions that you say haven't been carried out, and refer to each one as a separate paragraph in your letter. I would do this by linking it back to the assessment framework/triangle used within social care (which you can find online) and outline the way that each area that failed to to materialise from the care plan is affecting the daughter, but also the wider family. Then outside of the previous care plan, highlight any additional incidents/behaviours/developments etc and refer to the impact of each one with regards to the framework
Here eskimo...this is really the best re: complaint...not sure if you saw but she is rightYou have the right to remain silent.Anything you do say will be misquoted and then used against you
Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.
Bruce Lee0 -
Has she ever had work done with her regarding recognising emotions?
This is a really sad situation and I feel for your aunt and uncle as it isn't easy (ds also has severe learning disability,sensory processing issues etc so I can grasp the full picture of being mentally younger combined with the autism x) and if they aren't pro-active and intuitive enough they may have been tearing themselves apart for a long time
Can you help them get in touch with the local caters centre so they can at least let it all out,possibly get some advice and pointers and see they're not alone?(although there aren't as many autistics in such a way it may do something for them)
That's all aside from the pushing for the local authority to help though.
Do you and they think they'd be able to cope and care for properly and consistently with some support?I'm just wondering if their previous reluctance to tell others what it's like may also due to them feeling like they really can't do it but are desperate to be able to?Or whether they feel scared,feel they're protecting her by not doing so,because they had no back up or if it's a combination of all of that?
They need to think about what they want for her and what they can do and what they need for them,but they probably need space to do so.
I'm not sure what else to suggest really I just feel awful for all of themA few answers to posts.
They aren't very pro-active people and aside from universal services [ymca etc.] they don't know about anything.
She has escalated because of lack of support, they are very much two parents that need very strong guidance and have minimal personal initiative sadly, my Sister has been cross with them in the past for burying their heads in the sand and not being more hands on.
Her report mentions a Dr from CAMHS who suggested a structured routine, this is why the nurse [CTPLD] has been involved with behavioural management.
Is it worth approaching CAMHS again?
The Police called them apparently it's just one guy in a room covering the whole county! He said he will 'pass the information on.' I get the feeling they are their just so the social services can say this box is ticked and someone is available.
This presumably led to the meeting with the social worker today, but with respects to practical help their was zero from the out of hours 'team'.
The police officer said he will be scathing in his report which will be looked at by their own vulnerable young adults team [?] and passed to the social services. They said if we couldn't calm her down they would have to put her in a cell because there was 'no other choice.'
They also said they are not suppose to arrest her due to mental capacity but would take her in until their Doctor assessed her and said they could not hold her any longer [ i suppose it's a temporary loophole for desperate situations].
This would be great but i'm not holding my breath.
Firefox some charities are involved but just the ones involve in 'universal services' i don't know of any for children on the verge of going into care like in this situation.
OP,does the parents GP have then down on their system as carers?Firstly,if not they should be,there seems to be a form of priority and support by doing so.
My Aunt is registered as my Uncle's carer, my Niece is on a waiting list with the charity that offers practical help to carers. Not sure if this is because My aunt is her registered carer or because she is a registered carer for my Uncle. I'm not sure which gives them access to this service.
NLJ1520-
When i told my Uncle he may have to refuse to have her back he looked so sorrowful and broken.
When we arrived she was handcuffed on the bed, she didn't want to give the Police Officer the cuffs back when they said they were ready to remove them! Everything is a game really theirs no understanding of danger or seriousness.
She will ask if your angry with her as a reaction to you laughing and smiling at her, she has no real way of recognizing emotions. She also has some severe tics like chest tapping, obsessing on certain things to the detriment of everything else.
She's amazing but it's impossible now she has an adolescents strength with no idea of its repercussions, she will attack her parents unprovoked when they have their back to her and they are all watching tv, she will smash things up, fling food and crockery. I'm sure your familiar with it...
If they are forced to refuse to have her home and pass her care to social services how often can they see her and be involved in her life. Will they get frozen out either initially or long term?
Hi silly guy.
From March since the core assessment they have been trying everything, social services have registered many, many police incident reports describing the violence and the situation in graphic detail though it is in my Uncle's nature to be the quiet type and not make a fuss this was only until March. It's more a question that they are not the kind of people who know how to make a fuss, i knew straight away i would be involving the managers and MP.
Her Autism is 'secondary' will NAS still see her as a priority, i feel as if it is the autism that is causing the problems. Also social services have said at one point in the report that they don't believe the problems are down to her disability but the way she is handled at home [no doubt as school can manage], i think this is abominable.
What specific areas strike you as worthy of a complaint? I just want to get it right.
ThanksIf women are birds and freedom is flight are trapped women Dodos?0 -
verysillyguy06 wrote: »Here eskimo...this is really the best re: complaint...not sure if you saw but she is right
Thanks i did see that, but she doesn't have a care plan and i think basing it on the core assessment might not work since their are no timelines just general observations.
Is this the triangle? http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/06/20135608/56144
I'm in England btw.
If they had implemented a care plan when the core assessment had been completed i think their was a strong chance they could manage. After my Uncle's stroke i'm not so sure i think they are both at their final tether, with very real health implications for my Uncle.Do you and they think they'd be able to cope and care for properly and consistently with some support?I'm just wondering if their previous reluctance to tell others what it's like may also due to them feeling like they really can't do it but are desperate to be able to?Or whether they feel scared,feel they're protecting her by not doing so,because they had no back up or if it's a combination of all of that?
Reason for previous reluctance i would speculate is personality, they don't have the initiative to push people when needed or at least not in a way that would count.
It's also a cultural taboo though i don't share it personally but i'm not from my Uncles generation and was raised here in a typical English country upbringing.
In his eyes it's the responsibility of the family to initiate care at home, even with the elderly they would be cared for in an extended family. Hence the feelings of shame and or embarrassment for him.
They both want her removed A.S.A.P. though i could see how it hurt my Uncle when i told him how he would need to go about that.They need to think about what they want for her and what they can do and what they need for them,but they probably need space to do so.
My uncle said immediate respite of 3 to 4 months, however in the completed report in March they said they would like to continue caring for her with support at home and overnight respite.
I think if you compare those drastic changes in what they wanted in March to what they want now is pretty damning, if they had set up what the report asked for they would have had a chance not to reach this stage, in fact they say this exact same thing in the
report they wrote! 'There is a risk of further deterioration if no support is provided.'I'm not sure what else to suggest really I just feel awful for all of them
Honestly thanks for your help i'm going to shoot an e-mail off, though i'm still not sure if it should be an official complaint or an overview of the meeting and how strongly we disagree with the social worker point by point, the core review being mostly ignored and to stress they are on the verge of dropping her care as they are out of options.
Her sister is in year 10 trying to do GCSE's and she gets to see her dad and mum in this terrible mental and physical state, even she has said she has 'no interest in food anymore', no doubt depression but she has refused therapy.0 -
Thanks i did see that, but she doesn't have a care plan and i think basing it on the core assessment might not work since their are no timelines just general observations.
Is this the triangle? http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/06/20135608/56144
I'm in England btw.
http://www.workingtogetheronline.co.uk/consultation/managing_ind_2012.html
English Version....She should have had a 'written ' plan...assessment of her needs and how they were being met...Child's plan I believe....this should be on their electronic system and could help to gather more info for your complaint but as you said maybe keep that until after the next meeting. It could distract from sorting this out urgentlyIf they had implemented a care plan when the core assessment had been completed i think their was a strong chance they could manage. After my Uncle's stroke i'm not so sure i think they are both at their final tether, with very real health implications for my Uncle.
Like other people posted, get his GP involved and they could be referred to Adult Social care but sadly, they dont do anything usually when there are children involved but areas differReason for previous reluctance i would speculate is personality, they don't have the initiative to push people when needed or at least not in a way that would count.
It's also a cultural taboo though i don't share it personally but i'm not from my Uncles generation and was raised here in a typical English country upbringing.
In his eyes it's the responsibility of the family to initiate care at home, even with the elderly they would be cared for in an extended family. Hence the feelings of shame and or embarrassment for him.
They both want her removed A.S.A.P. though i could see how it hurt my Uncle when i told him how he would need to go about that.
My uncle said immediate respite of 3 to 4 months, however in the completed report in March they said they would like to continue caring for her with support at home and overnight respite.
I think if you compare those drastic changes in what they wanted in March to what they want now is pretty damning, if they had set up what the report asked for they would have had a chance not to reach this stage, in fact they say this exact same thing in the
report they wrote! 'There is a risk of further deterioration if no support is provided.'
Honestly thanks for your help i'm going to shoot an e-mail off, though i'm still not sure if it should be an official complaint or an overview of the meeting and how strongly we disagree with the social worker point by point, the core review being mostly ignored and to stress they are on the verge of dropping her care as they are out of options.
Her sister is in year 10 trying to do GCSE's and she gets to see her dad and mum in this terrible mental and physical state, even she has said she has 'no interest in food anymore', no doubt depression but she has refused therapy.
A complaint would lead to the manager coming out anyway but would make it more urgent. Given them strong deadlines and if failed, then complain....You have the right to remain silent.Anything you do say will be misquoted and then used against you
Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.
Bruce Lee0 -
verysillyguy06 wrote: »http://www.workingtogetheronline.co.uk/consultation/managing_ind_2012.html
English Version....She should have had a 'written ' plan...assessment of her needs and how they were being met...Child's plan I believe....this should be on their electronic system and could help to gather more info for your complaint but as you said maybe keep that until after the next meeting. It could distract from sorting this out urgently
Like other people posted, get his GP involved and they could be referred to Adult Social care but sadly, they dont do anything usually when there are children involved but areas differ
A complaint would lead to the manager coming out anyway but would make it more urgent. Given them strong deadlines and if failed, then complain....
Thanks, what they are doing in the short term is giving them £800 pounds to fund care but its inadequate at this late stage and it'll cover to little.
They will also have to wait until next week to get it processed and during now and then their is no support, nothing.
The meeting to organise a care plan will be with the social worker and all the managers and is on the 25th of this month. That is 3 1/2 weeks away and the short term funds they are releasing will only stretch to funding 10 days out of the 24 and only as overnight respite. Again this is to little to late at this specific stage, had they acted sooner who knows.
This is the crux of my write up on the meeting with her social worker and i will say that in this period, should either my Uncle or Nieces condition worsen they will have no choice but to contact the school and inform them she is not to be brought home or to take her and leave her at the team office.
I'm not sure how seriously they will take that but it's a statement of fact sadly.0 -
Thanks, what they are doing in the short term is giving them £800 pounds to fund care but its inadequate at this late stage and it'll cover to little.
They will also have to wait until next week to get it processed and during now and then their is no support, nothing.
The meeting to organise a care plan will be with the social worker and all the managers and is on the 25th of this month. That is 3 1/2 weeks away and the short term funds they are releasing will only stretch to funding 10 days out of the 24 and only as overnight respite. Again this is to little to late at this specific stage, had they acted sooner who knows.
This is the crux of my write up on the meeting with her social worker and i will say that in this period, should either my Uncle or Nieces condition worsen they will have no choice but to contact the school and inform them she is not to be brought home or to take her and leave her at the team office.
I'm not sure how seriously they will take that but it's a statement of fact sadly.
'Leaving at the office' is often used and to be honest just makes the parents appear as if they do not care enough as she would be in an environment that would scare her...not a good tactic and certainly not fair. Better to stick with school, even that is questionable but at least she would feel safe...try and work things out. Keep her interests there in the focus as she knows school. But do write the letter and copy manager and MP in if relative have got already contact with MP. Give deadlines, that is important.
It sounds a very anxious time...is there no relative that could help?? In the short term?
The child will just suffer so much potentially if this goes down that quickly as there is no time to prepare her .
Ask to speak to manager and dont get fobbed off...again, give deadlines....
£800 for overnights....and with people that dont know her??
See what school may be able to help to prepare or have an emergency pack for communication...? What is her understanding like? Social Care would usually talk to school as well...
I am very concerned about how your niece would react...poor girl You have the right to remain silent.Anything you do say will be misquoted and then used against you
Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.
Bruce Lee0
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