Request for popla refused despite quoting legislation, what to do now?

Coupon-mad · 9 January 2017 at 2:32PM

With regards to Jodee's case, unless I've misunderstood it looks as though she had filed 2 statements, one on behalf of her husband, the other on behalf of herself. Do I need to do this? In the DQ I said there was only one witness.

No you only need one WS from your husband. Not sure why she had two (except that he had named her as the driver), in fact I think a Lay Rep should NOT also be a 'witness' and should effectively be an independent voice speaking for the Defendant.

Re Schedule 4, you only need to look at paragraphs 1 - 8. The rest is not applicable. I guess that's still more than one page when printed out!

Do I really need to tie it all up in a ribbon? Everything so far is in a ring binder!

That's fine, no you don't. At Small Claims, pretty much anything goes as it is meant for the man in the street to use. And you know not to accept any paperwork or offer of a 'chat' outside of the court so that's fine, if their solicitor passes you any papers, let them drop to the floor!

Gin_and_Milk · 9 January 2017 at 2:41PM

Ah that's ok then. Just told OH that I'm not a Mackenzie Friend so I can do most of the talking so he's very relieved at that (as I'm I). I just have to practice talking in such a way that I don't drop myself in it as being the driver!

Gin_and_Milk · 9 January 2017 at 4:53PM

Just going through POFA (schedule 4). In para 8 (2) (a) it states 'The notice must specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates'

What does it mean by period of parking? Does it mean the date, or how long the vehicle was parked for? The date is mentioned on the parking charge and letters etc, but as for a period of time, nothing has ever been stated. For all the judge knows I could have been parked there all day or 10 minutes. Is their any burden of proof on MB's part to demonstrate how long I was there for?

I really struggle to understand all of this stuff as you've probably gathered.

Gin_and_Milk · 9 January 2017 at 7:13PM

I'm just in the process of fleshing out my WS by comparing letters from MB with what is outlined on POFA. This is one point so far from a letter from MB dated 25/8/16

'You are notified under POFA (schedule 4) that you are now required to do one of the following: Pay the outstanding value if you were the driver of the vehicle OR if you were not the driver, provide us with the full name of the driver of the vehicle along with their current address where a notice can be served'

My response will be along the lines of:

Under POFA (schedule 4) there is no such obligation for a keeper to name a driver despite correspondence from the claimant instructing they do otherwise. Under POFA (schedule 4), a registered keeper can only be held liable for the sum in any compliant 'Notice to Keeper'. This depends upon the claimant fully complying with the statute, which the claimant has clearly failed to do.

Is this ok so far?

Coupon-mad · 9 January 2017 at 9:50PM

Yes to both of the above points. Period of parking should be the time seen parked, without which there is no evidence that a PPC has complied with the requirement to allow a suitable 'grace period' (i.e. the car might have only been there one minute and as such, immediate ticketing is disallowed predatory practice outside of the Code).

Look at 8(2)f - have they stated the right words - 28 days from after the date of service? IMHO the warning about keeper liability under the POFA in 8(2)f is a fundamental prescripted statutory warning and must be spot on.

Gin_and_Milk · 9 January 2017 at 10:11PM

I threw the 1st (and possibly the 2nd) letter in the bin when I received them, so I'm not sure what they state about the 28 days notice. I'm guessing Gladstones might send a copy as part of their WS.

The PCN was issued on the 27th July and the most recent letter I have is 25th August (30 days later). On the letter it states that the 'time of contravention' was 09.11hrs, whereas on the copy of the PCN it states that the 'issue time' was 09.11hrs. Is the difference in terminology relevant? They make no mention of how long the car was there before they issued the PCN, so is the onus on MB to demonstrate how long I was there for before they did? I actually left the sodding place about 10 minutes after it was issued too!

Coupon-mad · 9 January 2017 at 10:31PM

I'm guessing Gladstones might send a copy as part of their WS.

They will.

But you could search Google images for a photo from around the same time - for example on pepipoo forum people often show their NTKs. Just search the name of the parking firm and 'NTK' or even their name and 'parking fine' and click 'images' to find one from the same sort of time, that was also issued after a windscreen PCN like yours (not an ANPR one). It will at least give you a heads up, in advance.

The PCN was issued on the 27th July and the most recent letter I have is 25th August (30 days later)

Hang on, that surely IS the NTK?! They are issued a month later, after a windscreen PCN. Or was that a reply to an appeal?

And something has just struck me, that date is actually 29 days later and PPCs can only get DVLA data at the very earliest, on day 29...so I am wondering when they got the data - too early?!?!!

Email the DVLA to ask, urgently:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71879174#post71879174

If they got the data too early then your OH's data has been obtained unlawfully...

Gin_and_Milk · 9 January 2017 at 10:44PM

Sorry yes you're right, it does state that it's NTK. It definitely wasn't the first letter I had from them though. That one went in the bin. I do have a copy of the PCN though, they sent me that when I was having the very frustrating email conversation with them. That's what made me query the difference in the wording (ie 'issue time' and 'time of contravention').

Thanks for this Coupon Mad, as always I really do appreciate your help.

Coupon-mad · 9 January 2017 at 10:46PM

Right, if you are saying:

- there was a windscreen PCN

- then a letter before a month was up,

then (unless that first letter was merely a reply to an appeal) they got your OH's name & address (personal data) too early - unlawful. Same, if they got his data when they knew they already had the name and postal address of the driver...did they, in the emails exchanged? Tell us about the email exchange! Were you cagey about your address/who was driving? Or not?

You need to email the DVLA urgently and ask the question!

Gin_and_Milk · 9 January 2017 at 11:30PM

Right I've just emailed the DVLA, so fingers crossed I'll get a lead from that.

The emails were my appeal, where I used a template in the newbies thread. If you look at post #26, I posted one of my emails to them on here with their dubious response, as they informed me that the matter was being passed over to Gladstones earlier than I was initially told. It's the appeal template where there is an admission of the RK, but not who was driving. I didn't lodge any sort of appeal prior to this.

Thanks again :-)

Request for popla refused despite quoting legislation, what to do now?

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free