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I started using Powershop in May as they were the cheapest provider (at the time) on both MSE and Which? comparison sites. Both comparison sites assume that customers will pay the quoted 'Easy Saver' rate, which (in my case) was around 18% cheaper than their 'Standard' rate. My experience to date has been very disappointing.
For the first month (May), although I purchased all the available discounted 'Powerpacks', I only achieved a 13.4% discount over the Standard rate.
June is looking worse and the discount is likely to be significantly lower than 13.4%.
If this is the case, I will switch to a cheaper supplier. I simply do not see how it is possible to achieve the 'Easy Saver' rate - which is the rate quoted by comparison sites (falsely in my view).
In addition, there are other downsides to Powershop:
1. In order to achieve the best discounts, you have to purchase electricity well in advance. For example, I have recently purchased electricity for November - 5 months in advance. This also results in your account being significantly in credit.
2. Having to constantly purchase Powerpacks is time wasting. For May, June and some future months, I have, so far, had to purchase 18 separate Powerpacks - some of which are for only 1 day's supply of electricity.
3. For each Powerpack you purchase, you are not told how many KWh you are purchasing - you have to work it out for yourself.
4. In order to evaluate your moving average cost per kWh (and whether you are getting a competitive deal), you need to maintain (and constantly update) an Excel spreadsheet. It soon makes you yearn for a supplier who quotes a fixed tariff which you pay by monthly direct debit!
In summary, Powershop is looking like a con - and the comparison sites are conniving in this deceit by quoting a very competitive, but unachievable, tariff.
My advice is to stick well clear of Powershop.0 -
Hello Rob,
Sorry to hear you haven’t liked the experience.
Our goal is to connect peoples consumption to their payments and give them control of their balances with their energy supplier for the first time. We think that’s good for both you and us because you understand your costs, have incentives to reduce your usage, and feel in control. Chris’s experience which he’s detailed in this thread is exactly what we are hoping for. (Thanks Chris!
)
We understand it’s a new model in the UK and are still refining the best way to present things to customers versus in New Zealand where it’s an established model. Two of the key differences are full payment for usage by the end of the monthly billing cycle, and seasonally varying discounts. These seem to be at the core of your issues with our model, but we’ll address your points one by one.For the first month (May), although I purchased all the available discounted 'Powerpacks', I only achieved a 13.4% discount over the Standard rate.
Our answer: Our discounts are not the same every month. The Tariff Information Label values reference an annual achievable figure. Great to hear that you got 13.4%, that appears to be bang on what we’d expected an active user would be able to achieve in that period.
Our model is different and requires full payment by the end of your monthly billing cycle. There may be customers who don’t budget at all in advance with future packs and we don’t want it to be too much of a shock when they see their first winter bill. Therefore, we are currently budgeting more discount for the Winter months when people need it the most.
However, seasonally varying discount means that any one month versus our quotes which are annual figures. The discount level quoted can be achieved either by purchasing top up and special packs the in month or by purchasing future packs and snagging our big discount winter special pack (which we are thinking of calling Wintervention).1. In order to achieve the best discounts, you have to purchase electricity well in advance.This also results in your account being significantly in credit.
Our answer: Even with a vanilla energy supplier on a monthly direct debit you will be building a significant credit during the spring and summer months when it’s warm with many hours of daylight. We are giving you the tools to manage that yourself. As mentioned above you don’t have to buy future packs to get the best discount, however we recommend you do as it’s a good way to budget.2. Having to constantly purchase Powerpacks is time wasting. For May, June and some future months, I have, so far, had to purchase 18 separate Powerpacks - some of which are for only 1 day's supply of electricity.
Our answer: Our goal is that you should buy about 5 packs a month and you can choose to do that in advance (future packs) or in month (top up and special packs).
Thanks for the feedback, we understand and are trying new things with future packs. You’ll see that this month we’ve made blocks of £10s which you can buy in advance. We may try the option of letting a customer specify the value (£1-100) in one purchase in the future. We haven’t done that yet because we thought it might be confusing new customers.3. For each Powerpack you purchase, you are not told how many KWh you are purchasing - you have to work it out for yourself.
Our answer: A Powerpack covers both your standing daily charge (p/day) and your usage charge (elec kWh/day). This is with the goal of being transparent about the overall bill value in the app. However it means that a pack can’t be represented in p/kwh as it would change based on if you’re usage changes. That’s why the % discount is what we display that is constant for all customers.
Additionally, we are looking to launch gas supply soon (moving into alpha testing now) and power packs will cover a whole bill including gas to keep the app user interface simple for basic users (you clearly don’t fall into the category of basic user!). A kWh of gas is a very different cost than a kWh of electricity that representing them together would be too complicated.4. In order to evaluate your moving average cost per kWh (and whether you are getting a competitive deal), you need to maintain (and constantly update) an Excel spreadsheet. It soon makes you yearn for a supplier who quotes a fixed tariff which you pay by monthly direct debit!
Our answer: You’re clearly a power user, whereas the interface is attempting to cater to all levels of expertise. You can see the details of your consumption costs in the Usage and Transactions tab of your online account. We’ll be adding more to these tabs in the future as we hear more from customers.5. Powershop is looking like a con - and the comparison sites are conniving in this deceit by quoting a very competitive, but unachievable, tariff.
Our answer: As detailed in our answers above, looks like it’s the seasonal varying discount which has given the wrong impression. We want to make sure customers receive the most discount when they need it the most in Winter. You achieved the maximum discount we’d planned for in May.
Many comparison sites want to display a “whole of market view” and have chosen to include us. We’ve had conversation with many of these sites to make sure they understand how we’re different, and we will continue to do so.
We specifically do not allow sales on comparison sites at the best achievable price (displayed as “Shop for Powerpacks” or “Easy Saver”). We allow click through only on our “Promise”. Customer’s who have signed up from April via comparison sites or our website, will have their accounts periodically monitored to make sure they are tracking to achieve the same or better than the “promise” rate they signed up to. This is because we are confident people can achieve very good rates and want to allow people to try us out without worrying.
Hope the above answers help! We’d be happy to give you a call and discuss if you’d like. Just send us a message on the forum as to how best to get in touch with you.
- Powershop Pricing Team“Official Company Representative
I am the official company representative of Powershop UK. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"0 -
Having talked myself out of a move to Powershop earlier in this thread, I transferred to them about a month ago out of curiosity having first determined what financial risk I was taking. I confess that it is only Ofgem's consumer credit guarantee that has given me the confidence to do so.
The switch itself was seamless. It took two weeks for PS to set up the online account. I had a couple of 'confused pensioner' queries that were answered very quickly and in a helpful way. So far so good.
What greets you on day one is confusing as the packs on offer give little confidence that any meaningful discount on PS' standard variable rate can be achieved. It is not possible to cover the first month of supply with discounted packages: I have had to use top up packs at the standard variable rate to get me through until July.
Future packs from July through to November do show increasing discount percentages (23.5%) in November - however, this does involve a large up front cost - much more than the summer credit that one would see on a standard fixed DD account. Advice from our southern hemisphere cousins is that energy for the Winter needs to be purchased well in advance (i.e.; during the summer) with little need for future purchases for summer next year. I have now paid PS over £175 and according to their calculations, I will have energy through to January 2018.
Will I? I am not sure that I know as the offer is primarily a standard variable tariff which may well increase before January so I am not sure what I have actually bought. No units are mentioned in any of the correspondence so if the price of electricity increases, then the I suspect the number of pre-paid units will fall. It would be nice to know if I am wrong: that is, are all pre-purchases based on the tariff rate at the time of purchase.
The app is simple to use but it has a lot of irrelevant information imho. I don't buy into the argument that buying energy in this way encourages energy saving anymore than any other energy bill or smart meter does. It would be nice to be able to upload historical usage data as the algorithms that PS uses to assess usage seem to be as vague as those used by most suppliers. For example, PS does not know that I have PV solar so until a year has passed it really is just guessing. I enter daily meter readings and chuckle about the response that I get from the app.
In sum, it is a lot of work for very little gain. It's a model that the customer needs to be on top off. Regular meter readings; regular consumption monitoring and the ability to buy, and pay for, energy well in advance. People worry about paying two suppliers on switch: to get the most from PS requires a sizeable up front investment in the short term.
Will I still be with them in 3 months' time: the jury is still out. The app suggests that I have already saved £32 compared to the standard variable rate. It would though be nice to know how many kWhs of energy I have purchased. Without this information, I and many others will struggle to know whether a transfer to PS is good value or not. Similar comments have been made by AU and NZ customers.
PS: Good to see a Powershop rep on this forum. You need to be accredited by MSE to post.0 -
Hello Hengus,
Thanks for the response. Sorry to hear that our way of doing things isn’t meeting your expectations. Hope to answer any questions you might have along the way. We’ll try to answer your questions individually.
On our online platform here’s a little pink rosette on the illustration with the discount versus our standard prices listed, in the phone app it’s a pink bar beneath the Powerpack illustration. This is a discount versus any cost so it cover’s both standing charge and unit charges. These will vary between up to 50% depending on the pack purpose and timings.1) the packs on offer give little confidence that any meaningful discount
In month Powerpacks, are sized to cover your variable usage but not your standing charge, so if you choose to purchase in month without future packs there’ll always be a bit left over. For lower users like yourself, it will be a bigger percentage of your bill.2) It is not possible to cover the first month of supply with discounted packages:
If you purchase packs to cover your usage every month, you won’t be worse off. In-month discounted packs are sized without covering standing charge and the discounted future packs are sized to incorporate standing charge. You can buy quite a lot of them at the moment. You won’t be worse off regardless of the method you choose.
As for the switching process, everyone should be able to log in before the end of your first monthly billing cycle so that they can buy Powerpacks and receive the discounts. If you think this wasn’t the case for your account, direct message us your details and we can look into it for you. Your switch would only have been delayed if there was a piece of industry data missing or if your previous supplier hadn’t gotten back to us.3) this does involve a large up front cost - much more than the summer credit that one would see on a standard fixed DD account
You don’t have to purchase future packs if you don’t want to. Our goal is to make the in-month discounts, and the future packs roughly equivalent. The future packs are there for your budgeting purposes, not to lock your money away.PS requires a sizeable up front investment in the short term
Powerpacks are £s against your bill. £10 Bill value against £7 cost for example (30% discount). This extends over the unit rates, standing charges, and will extend to gas in the future.4) I am not sure what I have actually bought. No units are mentioned5) I will have energy through to January 2018.if the price of electricity increases, then the I suspect the number of pre-paid units will fall.
As we mentioned in our previous post, we’re still working out how to best present customers with future packs. They are £ at a discount rather than days of energy booked. Over the 8 years Powershop has been active in the southern hemisphere, they got the feedback that customers wanted a guaranteed discount rather than a guaranteed price. This is so that if prices fall the savings are maintained, and packs last longer. The converse is also true in the back-end calculations. We are considering how to manage customer credit for the difference in these cases going forward.
Having already built up a balance to the extent that you have certainly makes you an outlier!
As a user with nearly 4,000 posts on MSE forums, it’s reasonable to say there might not be anything anyone could do to encourage you to save more. We can only tip our hats to you. Well done. :T We hope that for the less savvy, it will make saving, monitoring usage, and receiving accurate bills more attractive and simpler.6) I don't buy into the argument that buying energy in this way encourages energy saving anymore
That is correct. Our system applies a normal usage profile not one with PV. Please message us so we can put a flag on your account in the system to monitor this and make sure you are getting the correctly sized packs.7) PS does not know that I have PV solar so until a year has passed
You can see how many kWhs you’ve used in the “Bill information” section of your “Transactions”.8) It would though be nice to know how many kWhs of energy I have purchased.
However Powerpacks are discounted £s against your bill which include daily standing charge and kWh rate. Therefore, we as don’t know for sure how many kWhs you will use until the billing cycle is complete this calculation isn’t exposed in system.
Also as stated above, the move to £ bill value for discounted £ pricing was to insure we can simply display gas and electricity together in the future as the cost per kWh is significantly different.
Hope the above answers help! Same offer as before we’d be happy to give you a call and discuss if you’d like. Just send us a message on the forum as to how best to get in touch with you.
- Powershop Pricing TeamPS: Good to see a Powershop rep on this forum. You need to be accredited by MSE to post
PS. Thanks for the reminder. We’d submitted the request to MSE and are waiting on their response. When we saw Rob's note we couldn't resist replying and thought we better get in on the conversation.“Official Company Representative
I am the official company representative of Powershop UK. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"0 -
@Powershop. Thanks for the detailed reply. I won't respond point by point but I will make some general points that may be of help to anyone thinking of switching to Powershop.
Firstly, Powershop only offers one tariff which is a standard variable rate. It's use of the terms Easy Saver and Easy Saver Promise are confusing in that ALL monthly bills are based on the standard variable tariff rate. All power packs that are purchased are redeemed against this tariff.
Secondly, the Easy Saver Promise is a welcome guarantee that if you use only the projected amount of electricity (and the SVT doesn't change) and you do nothing other than just use electricity then, for the first year, your total liability will be limited to this guaranteed amount. That said, my understanding is that any credit is only added to the account after 12 months. Easy Saver Promise is not offered for Year 2 et seq. A simple comparison of the fixed rate deals on the market and Easy Saver Promise show that the latter is very competitive price-on-price. Whether anyone can actually achieve the Easy Saver deal in Year 1 is my great unknown.
For my projected consumption, the costs work out like this:
Standard tariff; £398
Easy Saver Promise: £380
Easy Saver £330
It follows that to achieve the Easy Saver cost, my power pack purchases must save 17%. So what is my experience so far? My account transferred on the 26th May and the online account went live on the 9th June. Since then I have been able to purchase the following power packs:
Appetiser Cost £1.00/Worth £1.39/28%OFF
Jumbo Cost £9.74/Worth £10.49/7.2% OFF
August Future Pack Cost£10/Worth£11.47/12.8% OFF
September Future Pack Cost £10/Worth 11.57/13.6% OFF
October Future Pack Cost £10/Worth £11.79/14.5% OFF
November Future Pack Cost £10/Worth£13.07/23.5% OFF
December Future Packs -yet to be released.
During this month, I have also had one Special Pack at £3.45 at a modest discount. To cover a gap of 10 days in the present month I have, on the advice of Powershop CS, had to buy 2 Standard packs at £10. The alternative was to do nothing and be billed for usage.
My conclusion is that to get anywhere neat the Easy Saver cost, future packs need to be purchased which means that the account balance is c.5 months ahead of where it needs to be, and Powershop needs to hold a lot of my money. It follows that to get the best deal for June 16, I really needed to purchase in February which clearly wasn't an option: I am happy to be proved wrong but I believe that achieving the Easy Saver cost in the first year is more than likely to be mathematically impossible.0 -
Hello Hengus,
Thanks for the quick reply.
We’ll make a couple quick clarifications and then address specifics of your account.
You mentioned:
Any SVT changes wouldn’t affect your promise, the SVT could go up or down but your promise remains a constant for your first year with Powershop. It’s there to give new customers certainty while they try us out.the Easy Saver Promise is a welcome guarantee that if you use only the projected amount of electricity (and the SVT doesn't change)
Now on to your account:the online account went live on the 9th June. Since then I have been able to purchase the following power packs:
Our records show that you purchased the following packs to be used in your current billing cycle.
Summer Snooze Cost £3.45/Worth £4.20/ 18% OFF
Jumbo Cost £9.80/Worth £10.56/ 7% OFF
Ballot Box Special Cost £1.79/Worth £2.11/ 15% OFF
You also have a bit left over from a short billing cycle that had happened as you started because we had a confirmed read from a meter reader. This is unique to your account and isn’t typical. Your Appetiser Pack was used for that billing cycle in addition to some of the Simple Saver.
Simple Saver (Reminder not used on last bill) Cost £1.66/Worth £1.97/ 16% OFF
Our advisors mentioned that you’d have to buy in-month Top Up packs to cover the remainder of any bill you have.
We usually release new in-month Top Up Powerpacks at the start of every calendar month although this isn’t fixed.
You’ll be able to buy a new Appetiser pack in a few days before the end of your billing cycle.
Appetiser Available Again July 1st Cost £1.00/Worth £1.39/ 28% OFF
Therefore your total cost and discounts on the variable per kWh will be as follows.
Total Cost £17.70/Worth £20.23/ 12% OFF
This is right on what our plan is for fully active customers getting our best deal. It is mathematically possible rest assured!
As we mentioned in our last post, you can choose to wait till in month packs are released during each month or you can purchase in advance with future packs. Our goal is that you’re no worse off either way you choose to purchase.
If you’d like us to refund your purchase at Standard as this didn’t have any discount, please let us know via a direct message on the forum and we can confirm we have the right account and action that for you.
Hope this helps.
- Powershop Pricing Team“Official Company Representative
I am the official company representative of Powershop UK. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"0 -
I can only commend Powershop for its excellent customer service. £20 worth of standard power pack purchases have been reversed. There is undoubtedly a steep learning curve with this type of energy contract. It will be interesting to see whether the power packs released next month will clear the small monthly deficit which is now building up on my account. I confess that I wasn't aware that power packs could be used to cover past usage. Every day is a school day.0
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I signed up for Powershop on 31/3/17 and went live on 19th April. Unfortunately due to PS not receiving the switch info. in a timely manner it wasn't until 30th June that my online account went live and I could buy Powerpacks. I missed out on buying future packs to cover May, June and July but PS are sorting what I've lost out on with a credit to my account.
What I'm wondering about is we are supposed to make a 22% saving over the year if we buy all the available Powerpacks and at the moment I'm seeing Future Packs in the range 12.8% discount (August) to 23.5% discount (November). In order to meet an annual discount of 22% then presumably the Future Packs for December, January, February & March will have to be a much higher % discount than even the November 23.5% level. Does anyone know what level they are likely to be? Was PS operating last winter and if so what level of discount was offered on the December to April Future packs - does anyone know?
With regards to Future Packs, they are an obvious way to rack up savings but what I'm wondering is why PS bother with low value Appetiser packs? - even if the % discount looks impressive as it's a miniscule amount of credit.
Also, do Future Packs vary the % discount depending on how far in advance they are bought? i.e. a November Future pack bought now will offer a 23.5% discount but what if it's bought in August? Will the offered discount diminish the nearer to the validity period it's bought or will it stay at 23.5% all the time it's available?
I'm still thinking how I can modify my spreadsheet to cope with the PS way of doing things so I'm interested in comments from others who also track, monitor and project future consumption and bills via a spreadsheet.0 -
I signed up for Powershop on 31/3/17 and went live on 19th April. Unfortunately due to PS not receiving the switch info. in a timely manner it wasn't until 30th June that my online account went live and I could buy Powerpacks. I missed out on buying future packs to cover May, June and July but PS are sorting what I've lost out on with a credit to my account.
What I'm wondering about is we are supposed to make a 22% saving over the year if we buy all the available Powerpacks and at the moment I'm seeing Future Packs in the range 12.8% discount (August) to 23.5% discount (November). In order to meet an annual discount of 22% then presumably the Future Packs for December, January, February & March will have to be a much higher % discount than even the November 23.5% level. Does anyone know what level they are likely to be? Was PS operating last winter and if so what level of discount was offered on the December to April Future packs - does anyone know?
With regards to Future Packs, they are an obvious way to rack up savings but what I'm wondering is why PS bother with low value Appetiser packs? - even if the % discount looks impressive as it's a miniscule amount of credit.
Also, do Future Packs vary the % discount depending on how far in advance they are bought? i.e. a November Future pack bought now will offer a 23.5% discount but what if it's bought in August? Will the offered discount diminish the nearer to the validity period it's bought or will it stay at 23.5% all the time it's available?
I'm still thinking how I can modify my spreadsheet to cope with the PS way of doing things so I'm interested in comments from others who also track, monitor and project future consumption and bills via a spreadsheet.
So far, Powershop is delivering. Yes, the monthly low value packs are a gimmick and future purchases seem to be the key way of reaching a c.20% discount. I guess that when the December pack is released, then the discounts on the already released future packs will fall. What this means, as far as I am concerned, is that PS is holding on to a lot of my credit. In principle, I have no problem with this; however, PS does not hold a supply licence* as it is wholly owned by NPower. Usually, business subsidiaries are set up to limit liability in the event of failure. I have asked PS to confirm that Supplier of Last Resort and the Ofgem Consumer Protection rules will apply in the event of insolvency.
* As per the list published by Ofgem on the 20th June 20170 -
I confess that I wasn't aware that power packs could be used to cover past usage. Every day is a school day.
How did you find this out? Is it just something 'the system' makes happen or did you or PS CS do something for you? Does it apply to Special 'in current month' Powerpacks you purchase only or does it also apply to Future Packs you've bought?0
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