Unenforceability & Template Letters III

never-in-doubt · 1 March 2010 at 12:10AM

wibbl wrote: »

Thanks for your prompt reply.

Well, I have 1 card that is just over 7k and can't seem to make a dent in it and will probably end up defaulting or going completely broke trying to pay it off anyway so I think it might be worth a shot.

Wib

Hi

Okies

Go to page 1 and follow the processes - should be quite easy to follow now...

ju34514 · 1 March 2010 at 2:17AM

HI NID,

I have just received replies from Shop Direct after I cca'd them about four catalogue accounts I have with them. The catalogues are Additions Direct, Marshall Ward, Great Universal and Littlewoods. I will set out below what they sent in response and think that two of them may be unenforcable but my brain 'cell' is struggling a bit.

1, Additions Direct - Unable to locate a copy - enclosed copy of current agreement which applied to this type of account and t&c's.

2, Marshall Ward - Enclosed a signed photocopy of original, but also enclosed a fixed loan agreement, (maybe for extended terms) but that has no actual creditor signature, only small printed letters. They also say the account was assigned to Lowell Group and that notice of assignment was given to me by letter - I have not heard or received anything from Lowells !!

3, Great Universal - Enclosed photocopy of original, signed by both but not sure if all prescribed terms are there as no APR. Also enclosed fixed sum loan agreement concerning a 'budget account' and also a credit agreement concerning another 'budget account'. No t&c's, bit confused with this one.:(

4, Littlewoods - Enclosed photocopy of original - think this is enforcable, contains prescribed terms, signed by both and contains further t&c's.

Any advice would be really appreciated, think you would maybe need to see 3 & 4 to be sure.

Thanks
Ju

P.S. Brilliant new thread NID, you really put your heart and soul into this, thankyou.:beer:

KipKip_2 · 1 March 2010 at 11:54AM

Hi NID

Great thread - & what a patient, informative & inspiring MSE you are!

I was following your thread number II and read up to about page 60 - think I know what's going on now but I have a few questions?

I took out a personal loan with Abbey on 9/03/06 for £12k (there's about £8k outstanding).

I have send my CCA request on 12th February so we're now over the 12 + 2 days...but i DIDN'T send it recorded delivery! :mad: (stupid KipKip) so now thinking should i send the first CCA request again, but this time send it recorded so I can at least have recordings of signatures & when they've received it for definate?

Also, around September 09 I have received an Account Summary Statement from Abbey detailing how much is outstanding, when payments are due, date loan started and monthly payment amount. This info on here is either making me think that the CCA will be correct & enforceable, or their sending these out now with all the correct info on them coz their pre-April 07 CCA's are unenforceable... anyone had any dealings with Abbey loan agreements?

I'm soooo anxious to see whether mine is unenforceable or not (as is everyone I would've thought!)

Thanks again NID - what a star!:T:T:T

never-in-doubt · 1 March 2010 at 12:00PM

KipKip wrote: »

Hi NID

Great thread - & what a patient, informative & inspiring MSE you are!

I was following your thread number II and read up to about page 60 - think I know what's going on now but I have a few questions?

I took out a personal loan with Abbey on 9/03/06 for £12k (there's about £8k outstanding).

I have send my CCA request on 12th February so we're now over the 12 + 2 days...but i DIDN'T send it recorded delivery! :mad: (stupid KipKip) so now thinking should i send the first CCA request again, but this time send it recorded so I can at least have recordings of signatures & when they've received it for definate?

Also, around September 09 I have received an Account Summary Statement from Abbey detailing how much is outstanding, when payments are due, date loan started and monthly payment amount. This info on here is either making me think that the CCA will be correct & enforceable, or their sending these out now with all the correct info on them coz their pre-April 07 CCA's are unenforceable... anyone had any dealings with Abbey loan agreements?

I'm soooo anxious to see whether mine is unenforceable or not (as is everyone I would've thought!)

Thanks again NID - what a star!:T:T:T

Hiya

Are you sure you want to risk a default for one debt worth less than £8k? Its a huge gamble as you'll lose your credit ability, i.e. get defaulted...?

If you're quite certain you want to proceed, you now should cease repayments as the account is currently unenforceable - in the meantime you respond with this letter, sending a copy of the original CCA Request (that you never sent recorded).... obviously send this reminder letter recorded delivery (with your copy of original CCA Request)...

Although when you send the reminder you should cease repayments, personally i'd continue paying until you get some sort of reply....

Send: CCA Reminder

KipKip_2 · 1 March 2010 at 12:07PM

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya

Are you sure you want to risk a default for one debt worth less than £8k? Its a huge gamble as you'll lose your credit ability, i.e. get defaulted...?

If you're quite certain you want to proceed, you now should cease repayments as the account is currently unenforceable - in the meantime you respond with this letter, sending a copy of the original CCA Request (that you never sent recorded).... obviously send this reminder letter recorded delivery (with your copy of original CCA Request)...

Although when you send the reminder you should cease repayments, personally i'd continue paying until you get some sort of reply....

Send: CCA Reminder

Thanks NID

I have a default on a different account already ... :mad: so thought may as well go for it seeing as my credit's terrible anyway! what do u think?

DGJsaver · 1 March 2010 at 12:10PM

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Template 3.3...

You would send the following letter if the lender sends you a reconstituted (fabricated/made up etc) copy and you want to see the actual copy (original). Being they can do this, especially after the recent 'test case' in Manchester, i'd suggest using a more informal approach instead of diving in with threats.

CCA Dispute - Copy Document Supplied

Hello mate

Just an update , receievd nothing back from Barclayloan after sending the above letter you advised , been a couple of weeks now..but Bcard replied on Saturday with a very short , very curt lettre , saying they have made their position clear , done all they have to blah blah

Yours sincerely....

My question is now , they are obviously going to now come after us quite vigorously (i would have thought) should i send the CCA dispute letter when that happens , or should i reply direct back to bcard themselves with it , then leave it , or (i know you what you may say here) should i file it , and ignore it ?

Cheers

never-in-doubt · 1 March 2010 at 12:16PM

ju34514 wrote: »

1, Additions Direct - Unable to locate a copy - enclosed copy of current agreement which applied to this type of account and t&c's.

Send this back to them: CCA Query - Terms & Conditions Supplied

ju34514 wrote: »

2, Marshall Ward - Enclosed a signed photocopy of original, but also enclosed a fixed loan agreement, (maybe for extended terms) but that has no actual creditor signature, only small printed letters.

Sorry, is this a fixed sum or a running account? What i'm getting at, is this a personal loan account or a catalogue account?

So, the application thing they sent you - is it yours, did you sign that form when you opened the account?

ju34514 wrote: »

They also say the account was assigned to Lowell Group and that notice of assignment was given to me by letter - I have not heard or received anything from Lowells !!

They should send a copy of the NoA to you, but this is no biggie and doesn't make the account unenforceable in itself, at the end of the day they can retrospectively sell the rights to the debt whenever they like.

If you signed the form they have sent, forget this one. If not, then is it a forged copy? Regards to 3 & 4 - as with 1 & 2, a copy of the agreement etc would be good?

I think you need to tell me a little more, such as balances, types of accounts etc... i.e. why did you have 4 catalogues with the same company - is this normal behaviour?

never-in-doubt · 1 March 2010 at 12:20PM

DGJsaver wrote: »

My question is now , they are obviously going to now come after us quite vigorously (i would have thought) should i send the CCA dispute letter when that happens , or should i reply direct back to bcard themselves with it , then leave it , or (i know you what you may say here) should i file it , and ignore it ?

Cheers

Mate if you sent the dispute letter then you respond with your Final Response - you need to check page 1, all letters have been updated and changed matey!

Send this: Debtors Final Response

Suffice to say, they do not have the original otherwise they'd have sent you it - as I point out in the letter, why withhold it if indeed they have it?

What does that achieve, exactly?

DGJsaver · 1 March 2010 at 12:24PM

Ok mate , cheers will do , should i aslo send it to bloan seeing as they arent bothering to reply at all (other than with the unenenfocable documents we talked about..)

?

never-in-doubt · 1 March 2010 at 12:45PM

midastouched wrote: »

Credit Card (circa 2004) With £12,500 Limit (Balance £13,000)
The credit card was taken out at a time when I wasn't even earning. I went in for a review and the guy foisted it on me saying basically "we'll put down you're earning £xxx a month..." (I kid you not). I'm pretty sure I just filled in a form on the back of a leaflet so I'm confident I can tackle this one head on with the template letters.

Being this is the largest of the debts, then you may be right about this being unenforceable, especially as they will have to prove to you that they did comply with the CCA at the time account was opened. I'd start by sending the following letter off to them: CCA Request . Don't worry right now about the ins-and-outs of the complaint, we just need the agreement at this stage.

midastouched wrote: »

Unsecured Loan (circa 2006) Of £5,000 (Balance c.£2,000)

Similarly, right now send this off: CCA Request

midastouched wrote: »

Unsecured Loan (circa end. 2007) of £7,500 (balance c. £7,000)........ The last loan was taken out after April 2007. The funny thing is, I had a phone call from my personal advisor at the bank a couple of days after taking out the loan saying, "can you come back in as there is another form that you need to sign". So a few days later I did but they had no idea what I was talking about and said that everything was fine?!

Hmmm, Post 04/07 is not that relevant on this thread and i'd like to keep it separate right now - totally different kettle of fish and it usually means going to court which is something I always say should be avoided at all costs.

To explain this for you, In 2006, consumer protection legislation was updated with a new Consumer Credit Act of 2006. This states that for credit agreements signed after April 2007, breaching a prescribed term will no longer automatically make an agreement unenforceable. But at the same time, the 2006 Act also introduced a much broader right for consumers to challenge a credit agreement if they believe it is unfair. If the judge agrees that the relationship is unfair, he can order the situation to be rectified.

midastouched wrote: »

Up until the beginning of this year, my credit rating was probably A+ as I managed to juggle my finances enough to keep the wolves from the door. However, my wife and I have recently split up and I am no longer living at the addresses held on file with LTSB.

Sorry to hear of the split-up mate :eek: So is mail still being sent at the old marital home? If so, how long with the wife allow this, is she likely to give your address to the lenders etc? is she financially linked to you, i.e. did you used to have joint accounts anywhere? If so, contact the CRA's and ensure you complete disassociation otherwise the adverse generated by you will affect the wife (or Ex wife lol)....

midastouched wrote: »

I'm officially 'no-fixed-abode' and am relying on friends/family for accomodation. Also, the recession has hit me hard and I'm currently only working part-time making about £500 a month - with little prospect of an increase in that figure anytime soon. Thinking of getting a P.O.Box No from Royal Mail - is that a good idea?

PO Box is a waste of time IMO - can you not use a dummy address? You do need an address for the lenders to contact you, even to fight unenforceability? I guess if you have no fixed address, you could tell the lender this in your letter then use a PO Box - but do not get into using a C/O address as they will hassle the owner of that house with letters for you, long after you've moved on!

Also, do you have any other stuff or are all your debts with the same bank?

midastouched wrote: »

To my credit, I did contact my branch in december by recorded letter explaining my financial situation and asked to have all my payments halved for the next six months. I didn't sign the letter - just computer printed by name in capitals. I got NO response which !!!!ed me off to be honest as I thought I was doing right by contacting them before they were aware of a problem.

That's about right - banks are scum and deserve to be shut down! They forget they came begging to us for help but when we need it, what do they do? Fuk em, I really can't stand them! :mad::mad::mad:

I wish we'd let them go to the pan and never bailed them out, I soooo do!

midastouched wrote: »

I do though still worry what the banks powers are in my case.

Honest answer? None! They have as much power as I have over you right now, which equates to - ermmmmmm (i'm still thinking) :rotfl:

midastouched wrote: »

I have a joint mortgage with my wife (different bank) and am concerned that my house may be at risk if i follow through with my plans. Can you please ressure me on this point?

Worse they can do is obtain judgement for a Charging Order or similar - don;t worry! There is a lot to consider, if the debt is unenforceable then no judgement can ever be issued (see my signature for details) and regards to the Charging Order, this is a judgement that would fail due to unenforceability. If for any reason it was added, we'd get it set-aside due to unenforceability and/or other reasons. But either way, a CO doesn't mean they can just sell your house, it means the debt is paid for when sold out the profit of your half only! Lets not worry about this right now...

I cannot reassure you cos the lender can act totally out of character but suffice to say, there is no formal legal action they can take against you.

midastouched wrote: »

Also, with Loan 2 being after April 2007, what process would I follow here? Further, do I send just one letter to cover all accounts or a seperate one for each?

Post 04/07 I don't really deal with as different fight altogether - also using different laws so not my forte i'm afraid. You need one CCA Request per account and £1 per CCA Request and one envelope per Request - each account is singular in its own entirety - they are not linked (send recorded delivery)....

midastouched wrote: »

I finally received a letter from the collections dept with a financial statement for me to fill in and return. Should I do that first or just go for the jugular with letter 1?

Ignore it.

midastouched wrote: »

I hope I haven't confused you too much with my financial and worldly woes, and I thank you in advance for any help and guidance you can give.

Just a little lol - :rotfl::rotfl:

Send the following letter to each account right now, including the Post 04/07 loan and see what they send back.... its worth a go! CCA Request

Unenforceability & Template Letters III

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