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£860 Private Parking County Claim - Urgent Help!

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  • No I've never touched my DVLA details. Even so, surely this sort of correspondence should require a signature to confirm it has been received?
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    jordan365 wrote: »
    No I've never touched my DVLA details. Even so, surely this sort of correspondence should require a signature to confirm it has been received?

    No. Where did you get that from?

    You were misinformed.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,614 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Add #8:

    8.1. In the case of Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E, heard on Appeal in Oxford Court by Circuit Judge HHJ Charles Harris QC and therefore a persuasive finding as well as being on all fours with my case, it was held that: “it is possible to draw a real and sensible distinction between pausing for a few moments or minutes to enable passengers to alight or for awkward items to be unloaded, and parking in the sense of leaving a car for some significant duration of time”.

    8.2 HHJ Harris provided a very detailed definition of 'parking' as opposed to a few minutes 'loading' and held: ''The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes. Whether a car is parked, or simply stopped, or left for a moment while unloading, or (to take an example discussed in argument) accompanying a frail person inside, must be a question of fact or degree. I think in the end this was agreed. A milkman leaving his float to carry bottles to the flat would not be “parked”. Nor would a postman delivering letters, a wine merchant delivering a case of wine, and nor, I am satisfied, a retailer’s van, or indeed the appellant, unloading an awkward piece of furniture. [...]I am quite satisfied, and I find as a fact, that while the appellant’s car had been stationary for more than a minute and without its driver for the same period (whatever precisely it was), while she carried in her desk, it was not “parked”. Accordingly, for that reason too, the appellant was not liable to the charge stipulated in the respondent’s notice.''
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Jonathon365
    Jonathon365 Posts: 94 Forumite
    edited 13 July 2017 at 3:50PM
    Thank you. Please see below for revised version:

    Is there anything else I should add?

    1. The Claim Form issued on the ____ by First Parking Limited was not
    correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “First Parking Limited" (Claimant’s Legal Representative)”.
    2. This is my statement of truth and my defence.
    3. As an unrepresented litigant-in-person I seek the Court's permission to amend and supplement this defence, as may be required, upon disclosure of the claimant's case.
    4. For the avoidance of doubt on the relevant date I was the registered keeper of a X registered number XXXX XXX
    5. The vehicle was parked on each occasion for under 10 minutes, whilst the driver loaded bulky printed documents/files of work/books from the adjacent library to the vehicle.
    6. Lancaster University Car Parking Policy #20 states that "Where vehicles are being loaded or unloaded in other areas, including car parking areas, vehicles must not be left unattended for more than 10 minutes at a time. This includes moving students’ belonging in or out of campus accommodation."
    7. Lancaster University Car Parking Policy #20 therefore allows cars to be parked for loading, as long as they are not unattended for 10 minutes.
    8.1. In the case of Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E, heard on Appeal in Oxford Court by Circuit Judge HHJ Charles Harris QC and therefore a persuasive finding as well as being on all fours with my case, it was held that: “it is possible to draw a real and sensible distinction between pausing for a few moments or minutes to enable passengers to alight or for awkward items to be unloaded, and parking in the sense of leaving a car for some significant duration of time”.
    8.2 HHJ Harris provided a very detailed definition of 'parking' as opposed to a few minutes 'loading' and held: ''The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes. Whether a car is parked, or simply stopped, or left for a moment while unloading, or (to take an example discussed in argument) loaded with bulky items, must be a question of fact or degree. I think in the end this was agreed. A milkman leaving his float to carry bottles to the flat would not be “parked”. Nor would a postman delivering letters, a wine merchant delivering a case of wine, and nor, I am satisfied, a retailer’s van, or indeed the appellant, unloading an awkward piece of furniture. [...]I am quite satisfied, and I find as a fact, that while the keeper's car had been stationary for more than a minute and without its driver for the same period (whatever precisely it was), while he carried out his books, it was not “parked”. Accordingly, for that reason too, the appellant was not liable to the charge stipulated in the respondent’s notice.''
  • Jonathon365
    Jonathon365 Posts: 94 Forumite
    I am about to submit the above defence. Is there any other suggestions / Do you think that will be sufficient?

    Many thanks
  • onomatopoeia99
    onomatopoeia99 Posts: 6,963 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Quick one that may be relevant - have you, sorry, I mean has "the keeper", graduated?
    Proud member of the wokerati, though I don't eat tofu.Home is where my books are.Solar PV 5.2kWp system, SE facing, >1% shading, installed March 2019.Mortgage free July 2023
  • Jonathon365
    Jonathon365 Posts: 94 Forumite
    Yes the keeper has graduated
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,614 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Fine - I reckon send it, yours is a case based upon the fact you complied with stated Uni policy, and were loading. At any hearing you will need to evidence that if you can, perhaps from library borrowing emails/records, or just by stating it as the truth, in your WS before the hearing.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Jonathon365
    Jonathon365 Posts: 94 Forumite
    edited 6 August 2017 at 8:24PM
    Hello,

    The keeper has received a 1) 'Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track' and a 2) 'Directions Questionnaire (Small Claims Track)' in the post.

    Document 1) states that this is now a defended case (I'm assuming in reference to the submitted defence above), that the case is suitable for allocation to the small claims track and requests for the 2) document to be completed and filed with the court office.

    Please can readers advise on the best possible route? Shall the keeper request meditation? They would prefer not to go to a hearing.

    OR

    Is this another scare tactic?

    It looks like the parking firm (Claimant) in question has taken 0 cases to hearing and issued 37,744 tickets across 2015,2016 and 2017.

    Does this also mean the claimant has rejected the defence?

    Any help is greatly appreciated!
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Is this another scare tactic?
    Er, No! These are official documents from the court and must be responded to.
    Shall the keeper request meditation?
    No, they will just try to convince you to pay up. If you try to settle now you'll likely end up paying more than if you proceed to court and lose.

    This information, as well as the answers to your other points, is detailed in the newbies thread - post #2 - you need to read this essential thread asap.
This discussion has been closed.
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