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Notice to Keeper (Minster Baywatch, ANPR)
BindiBahji
Posts: 71 Forumite
Hi all
Received an NTK yesterday from Minster Baywatch alleging an overstay ("parking fee covering visit duration was not paid in full"). Their evidence is a photo from the ANPR cam taken on entry and another taken on exit.
The overstay they allege is slightly unusual: the purchased ticket is timed 45 mins after the alleged time of entry, and the time of exit is 4 mins after the purchased ticket 'expires'.
Am I right in thinking the best course of action initially is to respond with a fairly standard ANPR-type response mentioning:
The driver suffers from anxiety/depression - worth mentioning that at this stage?
Received an NTK yesterday from Minster Baywatch alleging an overstay ("parking fee covering visit duration was not paid in full"). Their evidence is a photo from the ANPR cam taken on entry and another taken on exit.
The overstay they allege is slightly unusual: the purchased ticket is timed 45 mins after the alleged time of entry, and the time of exit is 4 mins after the purchased ticket 'expires'.
Am I right in thinking the best course of action initially is to respond with a fairly standard ANPR-type response mentioning:
- poor signage
- no evidence of authority to act on behalf of landowner
- don't name the driver
The driver suffers from anxiety/depression - worth mentioning that at this stage?
0
Comments
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the purchased ticket is timed 45 mins after the alleged time of entry
the time of exit is 4 mins after the purchased ticket 'expires'.
run that by us again?
did the person buy a ticket within (say) 10 mins of arriving on the site , yes or no ?Save a Rachael
buy a share in crapita0 -
Apparently they parked, discovered they had no change and went off to get some, so almost certainly no.pappa_golf wrote: »did the person buy a ticket within (say) 10 mins of arriving on the site , yes or no ?
It seems they did not realise that the car park was ANPR and assumed it was warden patrolled.0 -
the codes of practice used by both the the ATAs suggest (about) 10 mins after entry to read , digest the signage and to decide to stay (pay) or leave the site
HOWEVER
the signage in the car park should clearly state that ANPR is in use and state what reason it being used for
if you did not see this information , then its obvious that the signage was unclearSave a Rachael
buy a share in crapita0 -
I have now visited the site and taken some photos.
The signage is poor and the main sign is placed parallel to the street so you don't get chance to read it before you turn into the entrance.
As well as the sign at the entrance/exit there are two additional very small signs placed high up on the wall of the adjoining building. Many areas of the car park have no sign within readable range. The lettering on the main sign is very small in places, no more than 10mm high.0 -
Appeal using the blue text template from the newbies FAQ sticky to elicit a rejection and POPLA code. You will need to get this beaten at POPLA, you won't get any appeal won directly with MB.
Then do your research and preparation for submitting a POPLA appeal towards the middle of December.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
The only mention of ANPR I could see on the main sign is in the small print, positioned below waist level: "This car park is controlled by ANPR cameras and / or warden patrol." with a graphic alongside that looks like a CCTV camera.pappa_golf wrote: »the signage in the car park should clearly state that ANPR is in use and state what reason it being used for
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That notice of the £100 charge doesn't pass the Red-Hand Test.
It doesn't mention anything about how soon or otherwise you have to purchase a ticket.
Logic (hah!) would suggest that as long as the parking period paid for covered the total amount of time in the car-park (i.e. you pulled in, parked, went elsewhere for 45 mins, came back, paid for an hours parking, then left) that there is no actual loss incurred.0 -
Yep the £100 is hidden in the small print - and do the t&cs at the top include 'overstay' as a contravention or mention what maximum time as a 'grace period' is allowed in that car park to get a ticket after reading the signs (minimum ten mins at that arrival stage alone, is mandatory in the BPA CoP).
When you get to POPLA stage (not yet, the first appeal is an easy short template) this example I wrote on pepipoo would be a start as your base for appeal wording for POPLA (deliberately long):
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=109215
It would need the name of the parking firm changing of course (proof reading and tweaking of irrelevant words is your job!) and you can add:
Grace Periods allowed by the BPA Code of Practice not contravened (search the forum for 'Grace Periods POPLA' to find that wording for that point, which needs to quote the CoP)PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
They say that credit cards WILL incur a charge. That puts the total over 100 quid which is a breach of the BPA CoP.
Do the signs show premium rate 'phone numbers? They are also prohibited.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
Assuming the ANPR timestamps are correct, the total time in the car park exceeds the time paid for by approx 45minsLogic (hah!) would suggest that as long as the parking period paid for covered the total amount of time in the car-park (i.e. you pulled in, parked, went elsewhere for 45 mins, came back, paid for an hours parking, then left) that there is no actual loss incurred.
No specific mention of overstay, but it does state "All users must pay the appropriate fee for the duration of their visit..." No mention of a grace period at all.Coupon-mad wrote: »Yep the £100 is hidden in the small print - and do the t&cs at the top include 'overstay' as a contravention or mention what maximum time as a 'grace period' is allowed in that car park to get a ticket after reading the signs (minimum ten mins at that arrival stage alone, is mandatory in the BPA CoP).
Thanks, that's a useful point to mention at the POPLA stageThey say that credit cards WILL incur a charge. That puts the total over 100 quid which is a breach of the BPA CoP.
No, the main sign shows a local geographic numberDo the signs show premium rate 'phone numbers? They are also prohibited.0
This discussion has been closed.
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