Counter offer - what is realistic?

i8payingbills · 19 March 2017 at 4:50PM

Hi,

Firstly, this is a fantastic forum and does an amazing service to the public, please please keep it up!

I may be given a job offer at another employer tomorrow - I certainly felt that the interview went well (they had to tell me that my answers were great and I didn't need to give any more examples!).

However, I do quite enjoy where I work now overall, albeit:

The pay is poor
The department I'm in has a very uncomfortable aversion to any talking
Opportunities for promotion are limited
The location is not ideal

Now, I would be disappointed if they (current place) didn't make me a counter offer, for several reasons:

They keep telling me how important I am to their long term plans
The team is about to go one person down (normal resignation)
It's difficult to train someone up to do the job to a high standard for at least 6 months
They just struggle to recruit in general because of the location
There is an new system coming on board that they have earmarked me to lead on

So what I really want to know is, what can I expect to push them on? I was thinking about what would be my ideal offer, I suppose it would be:

Salary - match new job offer + £3k
Working from home - Set-up the means to work from home within 3 months, and to then allow WFH for up to 3 days a week (I feel like I'm actually doing them a favour with this one, as it's inevitable with the cost of commuting and the growth of the company that they'll have to do this for everyone).
Paid holiday - match offer
New job title
Formal commitment that a) I lead the new system, and b) My desk is moved to a different location within the building, on the basis that the new system constitutes a new business operation
Formal commitment that after 18 months, that I join the business development team with a view to leading marketing in the long term.
If they fail to uphold any these these conditions, I can terminate employment with a 3 month pay-off
If I leave for any reason (other than health related) within 18 months, I must serve a notice period of 12 weeks. After the 18 months, this period will revert back to the standard scale of notice period.

Am I asking for far too much here?

74jax · 19 March 2017 at 6:13PM

Have you ever asked your current employer for what you are now looking for?

If they have said no, but then offer it just because you are leaving, are you sure you would stay?

sjbrun · 19 March 2017 at 6:50PM

Well we all have a wish list...

but what is in a job title? Surly it's the job package that matters not the fluffy title of what they call the role?

Generally I would ask for them to at least match what you have been offered elsewhere if you are otherwise happy there.

TBagpuss · 19 March 2017 at 8:38PM

I agree with other posters, what conversations have you had with them before? Have you asked them for a raise? Have you asked about working from home?
Why would you expect them to pay you £3K more than the new job offer?

If you are asking for a raise or for other changes it is usually sensible to look at why it is in the interests of the company. This can include

- looking at market rates for your role, so they can see that the amount you are looking for is reasonable (and that they won't have to pay agency fees or costs of training if they keep you)
- what value you bring to the company to justify increasing your pay

The working from home thing - take a look at the government's guidance on flexible working requests, and model your proposal on that.
What are the benefits to the employer of you working from home?
What are the negatives? How are you proposing to address them? (note, commuting costs are not a good reason for the company, reducing them benefits *you*, but not the company, so think about any disadvantages or expenses for them, and how you can address them.

i8payingbills · 19 March 2017 at 9:25PM

I'll reply to this, but this will answer 74 and sjb also

TBagpuss wrote: »

I agree with other posters, what conversations have you had with them before? Yes. The conversation normally goes along the lines of "we will make to you a senior and raise your pay accordingly, just give us 6 months/until the new system starts". I have some sympathy for my manager because I think that, while she tries to project herself as though she actually makes these decisions, the fact is that this is a director level decision so her hands are tied. Have you asked them for a raise? See previous Have you asked about working from home? Yes and no - they had given me remote previously but it wasn't for the purpose of WFH but for operations back-up, and was taken away soon after. I have said to them that long term they need to consider allow more people to do this, and they agree but seem to lack the sense of urgency in this regard.
Why would you expect them to pay you £3K more than the new job offer? I don't, I expect them only to match, but I say ideal

If you are asking for a raise or for other changes it is usually sensible to look at why it is in the interests of the company. This can include

- looking at market rates for your role, so they can see that the amount you are looking for is reasonable (and that they won't have to pay agency fees or costs of training if they keep you)
I'm looking more at the fact that they have just signed a global agreement that makes them a preferred partner throughout Europe, and the fact that they have significantly bolstered numbers at managerial level in the last 12 months. They are hardly struggling.
- what value you bring to the company to justify increasing your pay I'm consistently nearly twice as effective as the average in virtually every KPI measure in my department - this sounds like a brag/!!!!!!!!, but it is true. And they seem to agree that I bring value, otherwise why say I'm going to be leading this new system project?

The working from home thing - take a look at the government's guidance on flexible working requests, and model your proposal on that. Interesting, will look...
What are the benefits to the employer of you working from home? Paperless, productivity (I'd probably work the hour I now spend getting there and back each day), test subject for future 'mass' WFH. I haven't had a day off ill in over a year, but there might be occasions where I could do the job but I don't fancy subjecting everyone to a snotty mess!!! It would also improve their environmental impact (my car emissions, electric)
What are the negatives? How are you proposing to address them? (note, commuting costs are not a good reason for the company, reducing them benefits *you*, but not the company, so think about any disadvantages or expenses for them, and how you can address them. Data security - I probably need to buy a new computer anyway, so they can do what they like to make it secure to be honest. And my internet connection is tip top. If I need to get to the office, I'm not a million miles away, but like I say even I don't want to be a home all the time. And if they think I'm going to overwork, I know they have the ability to time-limit the access anyway.

Masomnia · 19 March 2017 at 9:30PM

Does sound a bit moon-on-a-stick.

Better pay and benefits sounds fair, but they won't commit to giving you new role in 18 months time.

i8payingbills · 19 March 2017 at 9:38PM

Masomnia wrote: »

Does sound a bit moon-on-a-stick.

Better pay and benefits sounds fair, but they won't commit to giving you new role in 18 months time.

Haha yes it is ambitious, my concern with the new role proposal is that ultimately that's where I see a future for myself, certainly 5 years from now. I can't see myself doing what I'm doing now, even at a higher level, until my dying day - I think it's ripe for automation to be honest with you.

MEM62 · 20 March 2017 at 12:28PM

If any of my employees came to me with such a list I would just accept their resignation.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser · 20 March 2017 at 1:10PM

Yes, far too much.

But if you are happy to leave and that's what it would take to get you to stay, you have nothing to lose.

If you actually want to stay though, just ask for whatever it is that would make you happy to stay.

Lioness_Twinkletoes · 20 March 2017 at 1:50PM

I was with you till I got to the working from home three days a week and then the move my desk. I rolled my eyes hard at this. How old are you - 12? Do you want to sit next to your bestie as well?

I think you'll be luck if they offer to match the salary of the new job. Have to say though, I agreed with MEM62. If you came to me with those demands I'd shake your hand and wish you luck in your new venture.

tea_lover · 20 March 2017 at 1:55PM

i8payingbills wrote: »

I may be given a job offer at another employer tomorrow - I certainly felt that the interview went well (they had to tell me that my answers were great and I didn't need to give any more examples!).

There are other ways to interpret that - maybe don't count your chickens about an offer from the new place.

Counter offer - what is realistic?

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