is it worth joining a union?

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  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    TELLIT01 wrote: »
    "We" in this instance is Unions.
    True, but so as to leave absolutely no doubt in this circumstance - it is those unions that represent local authority staff. Whilst all unions have rules to this effect, most also have a level of discretion that they can chose to exercise. That will not be used in places where the workplace is highly organised, always has been, and the policies being used are well known and commonly used. You don't get to say "I don't like unions, they are rubbish, but I'll expect them to defend me to the hilt the minute I want them to". Any local authority employee has had myriad opportunities to join a union, if not many years ago, certainly there has been more than a little "encouragement" in the face of compulsory redundancies and cuts. And now that the OP is facing being the casualty of one of those stringent policies, they think that they might just be a great catch for the union. Followed, no doubt, by a rapid resignation the minute they no longer need the union.


    Thanks OP, but no thanks. That is not how unions work.
  • polgara
    polgara Posts: 500
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    I feel I have a general good grasp of employment law and my own organisation's policies and procedures (it is my job after all), however I am still in a union (and pay significant subs) just in case I need their input, or more importantly their employment solicitor. Its insurance that I hope I will never need...but you never know.
  • Estheroid
    Estheroid Posts: 17 Forumite
    I think OP may also find that there is a cooling off period between joining and being represented, to prevent people joining only when they find themselves in a difficult situation.

    Unions engage in collective bargaining when it comes to pay or pensions negotiations as well as giving advice to members. They often also provide educational opportunities for members. And just sometimes, workplace management don't follow the correct procedures - that's what stewards and union reps are there for, to see that the employee gets fair treatment.
  • kmb500
    kmb500 Posts: 656
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    sangie595 wrote: »
    What people actually hate is what they think unions represent. And paying for them. Just like the millions of people who travel abroad every year without travel insurance etc., etc., they are under the impression that nothing could possibly ever happen to them because they are "too good/careful" or whatever. They won't ever get disciplined, they won't get sacked, they won't get sick, or old.... And as soon as they do, then it is the unions fault for not wanting to jump to their service.
    I'm not expecting a union to do anything. I'm just asking if they are able to help me.


    OP - you may not approve of what unions "do", but from your other posts you work in the public sector (Cambridgeshire I think) so you are indirectly benefiting from many battles fought in the past by unions on behalf of their members. This includes pay, pensions etc. That's one of the reasons why you see so many posters on these boards moaning about "gold plated" pensions etc.


    I found it depressing when non-union colleagues complained about unions but were quite happy to enjoy union negotiated salaries etc
    I wasn't aware my salary was decided by a union.

    sangie595 wrote: »
    True, but so as to leave absolutely no doubt in this circumstance - it is those unions that represent local authority staff. Whilst all unions have rules to this effect, most also have a level of discretion that they can chose to exercise. That will not be used in places where the workplace is highly organised, always has been, and the policies being used are well known and commonly used. You don't get to say "I don't like unions, they are rubbish, but I'll expect them to defend me to the hilt the minute I want them to". Any local authority employee has had myriad opportunities to join a union, if not many years ago, certainly there has been more than a little "encouragement" in the face of compulsory redundancies and cuts. And now that the OP is facing being the casualty of one of those stringent policies, they think that they might just be a great catch for the union. Followed, no doubt, by a rapid resignation the minute they no longer need the union.


    Thanks OP, but no thanks. That is not how unions work.
    I don't hate unions, I just never seen the point of them and I don't expect them to defend me. You're quite right I have had plenty of opportunities to join them, they seem to always have grumpy looking representatives with their stall in our office giving away free pens.


    I'm not being put at risk due to redundancies or anything. I just wanted to know if it was something a union can help with.
  • zaax
    zaax Posts: 1,910
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    Your insure you house; you insure your car; you even insure your life so why not insure your job?

    Also the provide free legal advise which is a great help when you have a consumer problem or other legal problem
    Do you want your money back, and a bit more, search for 'money claim online' - They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring
  • kmb500
    kmb500 Posts: 656
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    zaax wrote: »
    Your insure you house; you insure your car; you even insure your life so why not insure your job?

    Also the provide free legal advise which is a great help when you have a consumer problem or other legal problem
    Actually I don't insure my house or my life, and I only insure my car because it's a legal requirement, if it was optional I'd save the money and risk it.
  • Stylehutz
    Stylehutz Posts: 351 Forumite
    [QUOTE I wasn't aware my salary was decided by a union.
    .[/QUOTE]

    Really so now that you know, I assume you would still be happy to accept the £10 a week pay increase which management wanted to give you, whilst your union colleagues accepted the £20.00 a week pay increase negotiated by the union;)

    Thats the problem with non union members, they all want something for nothing.
  • kmb500
    kmb500 Posts: 656
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    Stylehutz wrote: »
    [QUOTE I wasn't aware my salary was decided by a union.
    .

    Really so now that you know, I assume you would still be happy to accept the £10 a week pay increase which management wanted to give you, whilst your union colleagues accepted the £20.00 a week pay increase negotiated by the union;)

    Thats the problem with non union members, they all want something for nothing.[/QUOTE]
    I just read through the email from HR for this year's pay increase, it just says that it has been decided by our councillors to give us all an increase.


    Honestly I don't expect a pay rise, so whatever I am given, I will take. I don't expect anyone to defend me, I don't expect anyone to pay me more than what I'm contracted for.
  • xapprenticex
    xapprenticex Posts: 1,760 Forumite
    Hi, the same thing that has been said many times above will be reiterated to you for as long as you entertain this thread.

    You have had your answer from Sangie, if i were you, id move on now, I doubt anyone has anything useful to add.
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    kmb500 wrote: »
    Really so now that you know, I assume you would still be happy to accept the £10 a week pay increase which management wanted to give you, whilst your union colleagues accepted the £20.00 a week pay increase negotiated by the union;)

    Thats the problem with non union members, they all want something for nothing.
    I just read through the email from HR for this year's pay increase, it just says that it has been decided by our councillors to give us all an increase.


    Honestly I don't expect a pay rise, so whatever I am given, I will take. I don't expect anyone to defend me, I don't expect anyone to pay me more than what I'm contracted for.[/QUOTE]

    Your pay rates are negotiated with the unions. Always have been. Even the scales that you are on are negotiated with the unions. And the policy that you don't like now it affects you? Also negotiated with the unions. And you are expecting someone to defend you - now that policy is touching you personally and could result in problems because of your ill health, you were expecting a union might want to help you with that management discretion bit of the policy. And for members the unions often can have some influence, if it is nothing more than keeping managers honest. We tend to have good enough relationships with senior managers to bring some pressure to bear on behalf of our members. And at the very least, employers are scrupulously "fair" in law when we are watching them. We can't do a lot more than that. Because there are too many people who aren't prepared to stand up for the collective interest and fight, or join the union when they don't need anything for themselves. People like you. You have, whether you knew it or not (and how could you not? You are a thinking adult aren't you?) contributed to that policy you now don't like, by being part of the process of weakening the unions to a point where they are unable to significantly impact on new policies that are to the detriment of employees. You are now reaping what you have sown- a policy which can lead to your dismissal, with just enough fuzziness to let the employer play with it as they like.
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