Car tax fine
Ok long story, my husband’s hobby is to restore old cars. He can have one for months and sometimes longer at a time were he painstakingly paints/polishes/refurbishes etc as he enjoys it. The car is kept in the garage or driveway and is SORN’d. Very occasionally due to lack of space in garage and as our driveway has a wall on each side, he has brought it out on the road in front of driveway to get better access while he does bits and pieces on it and then it goes back in driveway/garage (same day). Eventually when the car is fixed up he sells it and buys another to do it all again. It can be weeks in between him working on it, it’s just a hobby and most of the time the car is out of sight in the garage. Last week he had a week off work and had the car out on 3 consecutive days on the roadside to work on it. The DVLA car tax enforcement team came and clamped it as it has no tax. I can only presume that a disgruntled neighbour has reported it as we are the last house in a cul d sac, so not like they would just be driving by. Anyway, my husband explained what he was doing but they didn’t care. To get the car unclamped he would need to pay a release fee and also tax the car but the car is not mot’d yet as he is still fixing it up so nowhere near being able to be driven around on the roads yet. However, they won’t let him pay the release fine and keep it on a SORN, we can’t afford to pay the fine + tax on a car that is worth less than what that would cost. Therefore, they said the car would be uplifted and scrapped after 24hrs if we did not pay to have it released. We decided to cut our losses and just do that. However, the car has continued to sit outside my house clamped for 10 days (with no tax) which seems very contradictory considering my husband only had it out for mere hours! To top it off he has now had a letter from the DVLA saying he needs to pay a fine of £183 to them also due to the ‘No Tax’ offence. We don’t really have the money for this either and feel it is so excessive considering the car was only outside the driveway for a few hours at a time over 3 days to get some bodywork done. Do we have any chance to argue against this? Just so you know, we do have a road worthy car which is taxed/insured this car really is just for his hobby. I appreciate that the car was on the road with no tax but at the time we didn’t realise at that time bringing it out to do a bit of work on it and putting it back in the garage was an offence. My husband suffers with depression which he has been really poorly in the past, this hobby gives him a distraction and now since this has happened it’s really set him back. Not only does he think a neighbour has got it in for him but is now stressing about the money it’s going to cost us. Anyone got any advice? Thanks
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Ok long story, my husband’s hobby is to restore old cars. He can have one for months and sometimes longer at a time were he painstakingly paints/polishes/refurbishes etc as he enjoys it. The car is kept in the garage or driveway and is SORN’d. Very occasionally due to lack of space in garage and as our driveway has a wall on each side, he has brought it out on the road in front of driveway to get better access while he does bits and pieces on it and then it goes back in driveway/garage (same day). Eventually when the car is fixed up he sells it and buys another to do it all again. It can be weeks in between him working on it, it’s just a hobby and most of the time the car is out of sight in the garage. Last week he had a week off work and had the car out on 3 consecutive days on the roadside to work on it. The DVLA car tax enforcement team came and clamped it as it has no tax. I can only presume that a disgruntled neighbour has reported it as we are the last house in a cul d sac, so not like they would just be driving by. Anyway, my husband explained what he was doing but they didn’t care. To get the car unclamped he would need to pay a release fee and also tax the car but the car is not mot’d yet as he is still fixing it up so nowhere near being able to be driven around on the roads yet. However, they won’t let him pay the release fine and keep it on a SORN, we can’t afford to pay the fine + tax on a car that is worth less than what that would cost. Therefore, they said the car would be uplifted and scrapped after 24hrs if we did not pay to have it released. We decided to cut our losses and just do that. However, the car has continued to sit outside my house clamped for 10 days (with no tax) which seems very contradictory considering my husband only had it out for mere hours! To top it off he has now had a letter from the DVLA saying he needs to pay a fine of £183 to them also due to the ‘No Tax’ offence. We don’t really have the money for this either and feel it is so excessive considering the car was only outside the driveway for a few hours at a time over 3 days to get some bodywork done. Do we have any chance to argue against this? Just so you know, we do have a road worthy car which is taxed/insured this car really is just for his hobby. I appreciate that the car was on the road with no tax but at the time we didn’t realise at that time bringing it out to do a bit of work on it and putting it back in the garage was an offence. My husband suffers with depression which he has been really poorly in the past, this hobby gives him a distraction and now since this has happened it’s really set him back. Not only does he think a neighbour has got it in for him but is now stressing about the money it’s going to cost us. Anyone got any advice? Thanks
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/what-does-sorn-mean/
"You can make a SORN under the following circumstances:
If you intend to keep the vehicle in question on a driveway, in a garage, or on private land for a period of time. It cannot be parked on any kind of public road."0 -
Sorry OP, it's quite clear cut and I'm afraid you'll just have to accept the consequences. There isn't a spirit versus letter of the law interpretation because quite simply it would lead to a free-for-all.0
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Inner_Zone wrote: »https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/what-does-sorn-mean/
"You can make a SORN under the following circumstances:
If you intend to keep the vehicle in question on a driveway, in a garage, or on private land for a period of time. It cannot be parked on any kind of public road."
Yes we are aware of that now, but was wondering if anyone has been successful in disputing a fine in a situation similar to this. I can’t see what the justification of this amount of a fine for a car that was only on the side of the road for a few hours. It has spent longer on the roadside because of the clamping than it ever was because of my husband.0 -
Allowing the car to be towed and crushed won't affect the costs you already owe, and can potentially add more in removal fees.
There is the penalty for keeping an untaxed vehicle on the road (which you admit), and there is the additional issue of DVLA charging back tax ....
There is also the issue of it not being allowed to work on cars on the roadway if it is for gain or reward (which if he is doing up to sell it arguably is) or if it gives annoyance to others in the vicinity (which it sounds like is also the case) ....Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005, section 40 -
Yes we are aware of that now, but was wondering if anyone has been successful in disputing a fine in a situation similar to this. I can’t see what the justification of this amount of a fine for a car that was only on the side of the road for a few hours. It has spent longer on the roadside because of the clamping than it ever was because of my husband.
But you or he had declared SORN, so either of you should have known that at that time and not after.
Pay the fine and move on.0 -
Allowing the car to be towed and crushed won't affect the costs you already owe, and can potentially add more in removal fees.
There is the penalty for keeping an untaxed vehicle on the road (which you admit), and there is the additional issue of DVLA charging back tax ....
There is also the issue of it not being allowed to work on cars on the roadway if it is for gain or reward (which if he is doing up to sell it arguably is) or if it gives annoyance to others in the vicinity (which it sounds like is also the case) ....Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005, section 4
Ok, it looks like we will have to pay it.
He never does make money, just recovers costs.
Thanks for your reply though.0 -
For them to clamp it I presume your OH wasn't working on it, and able to stop them?
Working on that basis, you had an untaxed car on the road, unattended.
Whilst it's not what you want to hear, you're bang to rights unfortunately.0 -
paddyandstumpy wrote: »For them to clamp it I presume your OH wasn't working on it, and able to stop them?
Working on that basis, you had an untaxed car on the road, unattended.
Whilst it's not what you want to hear, you're bang to rights unfortunately.
No, he was outside with the car at the time.
It does seem we have no option but to pay.
Just frustrating as the car was only £100, so he is losing the car and this fine. Our lesson has been learned.
Thanks0 -
The justification is that it is both a punishment and a deterrent. If the fine was a proportion of the annual tax appropriate to the time the car spent on the road, it would be pennies. Would that be a deterrent? Probably not. Your husband knew the rules because he SORN'd the car yet still took a risk and it backfired. I presume he won't repeat the same mistake so therefore the fine has acted as a successful deterrent.I can’t see what the justification of this amount of a fine for a car that was only on the side of the road for a few hours. It has spent longer on the roadside because of the clamping than it ever was because of my husband.
It's a lost cause I'm afraid.0 -
Everything else is secondary. The only important thing here is that there was a SORNed car spotted on the road by a DVLA enforcement team, who clamped it. Bingo. Job jobbed. No excuses, no get-outs. He was caught red-handed. You say it was un-MOTd, and not capable of passing one (so unroadworthy?) - I presume it was also uninsured? At least tell us he pushed it onto the road, rather than moving it under its own power...
The legislation around SORN has not changed - except that it no longer expires annually - since it was introduced 20 years ago next year. If your husband is indeed somebody who restores old cars for resale, then he really should have known this. But ignorance of the law is rarely an excuse, and it certainly isn't here.
BTW, there may also be a strong argument that he's trading, if ever a buyer has an issue with a vehicle. The fact he isn't doing so profitably is irrelevant, but the fact he gets through several a year, buying and "restoring" for resale is very relevant - have a google for HMRC's "badges of trade". I'd imagine the local authority are also going to be rather irate when they find out that somebody is working semi-commercially with facilities so limited that he needs to put untaxed, uninsured, untested, unroadworthy vehicles onto the public road. That's before we consider the environmental health aspects - I'm presuming he's spraying...? What sort of paint?
TBH, if this stops here, he's got off VERY lightly. Take this opportunity to pause and think.0
This discussion has been closed.
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