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Completion day – Damage to house !!

2

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  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977
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    I doubt you can claim against the removal company, or their insurance, as you have no contract with them.

    You claim against the sellers either
    * for failing to hand over the property at Completion in the same ondiion as at Exchange (or did you Exchange/Complete same day......?)
    and/or
    * for causing damage whilst moving out

    Whether they choose to pay you, orclaim on their insurace, or claim against the removal company is up to them.
  • basil92
    basil92 Posts: 12,510
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    Elinore wrote: »

    We then got a call from our solicitors that the seller’s removals had dropped a sofa from the top floor down three floors (it’s a town house with a large garden/ balcony on the roof)

    Apparently it’s damaged every wall in the stair well from the top floor to the ground and smashed a hole though the bottom plasterboard wall where it had gathered quite a bit of momentum.


    Just curious, but I'm having trouble working out how the sofa fell down 3 floors/flights of stairs, 'from the top floor to the ground'?

    Even in a large town house the stairs tend to be in a Zigzag form, but even if not, they will have a landing between each which surely would have quelled the 'momentum' of the sofa?

    ....?
    If you want somebody you can trust...trust yourself :cool:

    Chopper98 wrote: »
    Basil - Lovely, a sensitive soul with legs designed for the catwalk
  • Elinore
    Elinore Posts: 259 Forumite
    Update.

    OH has now checked in.

    1. Three flights turn out to be one turn from first floor landing to the ground floor so three sets of steps.

    2. It's the bottom wall at the end of the turn.

    3. There is a large fist sized hole through the plasterboard

    4. There are several large gouges and huge dinks in the wall and hand rails

    When the OH arrived their removals had already left. The seller didn't hand over any details and advised she would make arangments to put it right through her sols and the estate agent.

    I can post photos later if you wish.
  • saajan_12
    saajan_12 Posts: 3,593
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    G_M wrote: »
    I doubt you can claim against the removal company, or their insurance, as you have no contract with them.

    You probably know more about this than I do, so a genuine question rather than a disagreement: Why can't OP claim against the removal men/company as any other person / company representative you allowed into your home and who damaged it?

    The seller's contract at its core is about what to remove, where to deliver, cost, damage to items.. so how does this cover any damage they cause to the property? Sure, more detailed contracts will often have all sorts of disclaimers / clauses about any damage, but this is unlikely in a verbal or man & van agreement.

    I would argue neither seller nor buyer have a contract with the removals co. that is about damage to the house, so why is there a difference between the seller or buyer being able to sue the removals co?
  • Ithaca
    Ithaca Posts: 269
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    saajan_12 wrote: »
    You probably know more about this than I do, so a genuine question rather than a disagreement: Why can't OP claim against the removal men/company as any other person / company representative you allowed into your home and who damaged it?

    The seller's contract at its core is about what to remove, where to deliver, cost, damage to items.. so how does this cover any damage they cause to the property? Sure, more detailed contracts will often have all sorts of disclaimers / clauses about any damage, but this is unlikely in a verbal or man & van agreement.

    I would argue neither seller nor buyer have a contract with the removals co. that is about damage to the house, so why is there a difference between the seller or buyer being able to sue the removals co?

    You can sue whoever you like!

    I think the argument is that the removal men have an implied duty of reasonable care under their contract and should therefore make good the damage, and that should be a considerably easier (and cheaper / quicker) process than the legal route.

    They can't just knock lumps out of your walls while moving a sofa and then say "we never actually said we wouldn't knock lumps out of your wall", especially if they are selling themselves as experts in removals.

    So the OP can sue for the damage if they want but the removal firm would be pushing it a bit if they argue it from a contractual point-of-view; so the contractual route is the best approach initially but as noted OP has no contract with the removal firm so it would need to be the vendors who progress the claim.
  • saajan_12
    saajan_12 Posts: 3,593
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    Ithaca wrote: »
    You can sue whoever you like!

    I think the argument is that the removal men have an implied duty of reasonable care under their contract and should therefore make good the damage, and that should be a considerably easier (and cheaper / quicker) process than the legal route.

    They can't just knock lumps out of your walls while moving a sofa and then say "we never actually said we wouldn't knock lumps out of your wall", especially if they are selling themselves as experts in removals.

    So the OP can sue for the damage if they want but the removal firm would be pushing it a bit if they argue it from a contractual point-of-view; so the contractual route is the best approach initially but as noted OP has no contract with the removal firm so it would need to be the vendors who progress the claim.

    Maybe I didn’t explain clearly: I don’t mean the OP can claim under some contract, I mean that neither the buyer nor seller have a contract regarding damage to walls. Anything implying “I will make good any damage” would benefit the owner of the property whether that is the buyer or the seller at the time of the damage.

    What if it was a neighbour (in a block of flats) who’s door got damaged, or a parked car that is dented when the removals men were manoeuvring a sofa into the van.. surely if someone damages my property, I can * sue / claim against them directly, regardless of any contracts with a nearby / prior homeowner.

    As outlined in my post, I agree there is also an argument to hold the seller responsible, but I don’t see why this isn’t possible (and more options is a good thing?)

    *by “I can sue” I mean I can sue and reasonably win (given sufficient proof of the damage etc)
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189
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    Seems open-and-shut from here.

    It was unequivocally your property at the time. The removal company damaged your property. The removal company's insurance pay the cost of repairing the damage to your property. Job jobbed.
  • Elinore
    Elinore Posts: 259 Forumite
    edited 28 September 2016 at 8:13PM
    So called the estate agent today, given the run around re handing over the removal men's insurance details. They are just shrugging their shoulders.

    Data protection, apparently.

    I am irritated with my OH as I told him to get the insurance details! To be fair to him he is not a people person and when the seller said she would sort it all out with the removals and deal with it through the estate agent, he took her at her word.

    So we may have just done up like a Christmas Turkey. As we don't now know where the sellers live, we don't know which removals were used or have their details.

    I will speak to our sols if we don't hear anything by Friday as they were notified of the damage, not sure if directly by her or her sols (she's a sol herself at the firm that did her conveyancing)
  • Elinore
    Elinore Posts: 259 Forumite
    Not much of an update...


    So we have now involved our sols. We were promised contact but its not been forthcoming.


    Our sols have written to the TP Sols - They responded with a 'gesture' of £500 to bring the matter to a close.


    We thanked them for the kind offer but pointed out that this would not cover the works to put the damage right. We reiterated that we are not looking for a cash settlement but the damage actually repaired.


    The TP sols have refused to hand over the removals details and have advised us that currently we will have a wait time of 21 days to have any claim reviewed by them.
  • Hoploz
    Hoploz Posts: 3,888 Forumite
    I'm sorry to hear this isn't resolved yet. I think I would have accepted the £500. If the damage is a fist size hole in plasterboard plus dinks up and down the stairs I can't see the repair costing more than this. Have you had a quote from a decorator or handyman?

    Not sure what you mean by not wanting cash but wanting the repair done ... it's unlikely an insurer would send a man along - they would much more likely give a cash amount following quotes.

    I think you're best selecting your own tradesman and using the cash they've offered you to pay somebody who you deem suitable/who you trust to do the job. Or take the money and do it yourself.

    At this point paying for more legal letters may end up costing you a pretty penny not to mention the stress you're continuing to feel.
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