Smart Meters - Ask me anything!
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poppellerant wrote: »I have had a SMETS 1 smart meter with OVO since 2014. If I changed to another provider who cannot read my smart meter's data, can I reasonably request a SMETS 2 smart meter from the new provider?
As a customer, I allowed the smart meter to be installed under the belief this would be the last meter I'd need for 15 years (the life of the gas meter's internal battery). I feel somewhat short changed now knowing this is already old technology and knowing new providers will probably encounter difficulties reading from it.
What are the differences between SMETS 1 & 2? It sounds to me like they use completely different protocols.
Apologies for the quick answer - there are quite a few posts on here now!
You can reasonably request a SMETS2 meter, but there won't be any available to ANY supplier to fit until absolute earliest 12th December, realistically for most suppliers they'll start installing in earnest mid-late next year.
It is a bit of a waste indeed SMETS1, but the value of the lessons learnt from this period for manufacturers, suppliers, industry bodies has been very useful. It was a 'don't run before you can walk' decision to see how things went.
There are more security requirements for SMETS2 amongst other things (i have a comparison table somewhere if you are really interested i could dig out). The comms in the home (the HAN) is the same protocol (ZigBee) but the Wide Area Network comms differs. In the central and south region of the UK will use the O2 network ONLY - cellular (where the SMETS1 meters tended to be any network sims), and in the north it will be long range radio (just over 400Mhz).0 -
Rather than get embroiled in another debate about smart meters - which in my opinion are a 20th Century solution to a 21st Century problem - I would urge MSErs to read what is in the public domain. In particular, the latest report from The Science and Technology Select Committee outlines many concerns: not least, 'what is the aim of this roll-out programme?'
Early adopters take care: this is the view of one of the Expert Witnesses:
Q94 Matt Warman: Realistically, in 10 years’ time, do you think that one of those first-generation meters will still be considered good enough by the Department, the industry and so on?
Daron Walker: Yes, I think so. As far as the consumer is concerned, the SMETS 1 meter pretty much does everything that a SMETS 2 meter will do. The main difference is around the fact that currently it operates outside the DCC. It has the ability to do time of use and to talk to an IHD. There is the ability to extract data through a consumer access point. All of that is embedded in the first generation of meters. Fundamentally, where innovation will happen is in the home, making use of the data. We do not see massive innovation in terms of the smart metering system itself; it is more about taking the data and innovating with that. The smart meter will be able to send pricing signals inside the home. If you want to sign up to a time-of-use tariff, devices in your home will be able to listen to the fact that the price is different at a given time of day. It is absolutely right that these meters will still be on the wall in 10 years’ time.
As the Report so clearly states - the left hand is not sure what the right hand is doing:
67.It is unclear whether the Government’s primary aim of the smart meter rollout is the establishment of a smart energy system (and the realisation of the corresponding benefits of this for efficient energy generation, both now and in the future), or to save individuals money on their energy bills.
The Government needs to do more to communicate the national benefits of smart metering alongside the potential cost savings and efficiencies for individual consumers. This was a weakness of the Government’s evidence check statement, and relates to a lack of clarity over the ‘problem’ that smart meters aim to address.
In its response to this report, the Government should provide further information on how it expects smart metering to affect the required energy generation capacity of the network and the mix of energy generation sources.
The SMETS2 Specification Document now runs to over 800 pages of which 79 pages lists definitions - and the perceived benefit to you and me is an average saving of 7p per day. My smart thermostat saved me over 2500kWhs of gas in the past 12 months.
I will leave it to the OP to try to persuade you that smart meters are the way forward.0 -
This does make me laugh!Electricity and gas consumption data supplied every 30 mins / 60 minutes would provide a honey pot of information to all and sundry
Sure dude, they're lining up around the block to find out when you boil your kettle. :rotfl: Careful now, you never know how they'll use that information against you. Keep your eyes peeled for targeted Tetley ads!0 -
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I am currently with OVO, but may well be changing when my contract ends in a couple of months. If I got a smart meter fitted now (presumably SMETS1), which companies would be able to use this meter without it becoming dumb?0
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Rather than get embroiled in another debate about smart meters - which in my opinion are a 20th Century solution to a 21st Century problem - I would urge MSErs to read what is in the public domain. In particular, the latest report from The Science and Technology Select Committee outlines many concerns: not least, 'what is the aim of this roll-out programme?'
Early adopters take care: this is the view of one of the Expert Witnesses:
Q94 Matt Warman: Realistically, in 10 years’ time, do you think that one of those first-generation meters will still be considered good enough by the Department, the industry and so on?
Daron Walker: Yes, I think so. As far as the consumer is concerned, the SMETS 1 meter pretty much does everything that a SMETS 2 meter will do. The main difference is around the fact that currently it operates outside the DCC. It has the ability to do time of use and to talk to an IHD. There is the ability to extract data through a consumer access point. All of that is embedded in the first generation of meters. Fundamentally, where innovation will happen is in the home, making use of the data. We do not see massive innovation in terms of the smart metering system itself; it is more about taking the data and innovating with that. The smart meter will be able to send pricing signals inside the home. If you want to sign up to a time-of-use tariff, devices in your home will be able to listen to the fact that the price is different at a given time of day. It is absolutely right that these meters will still be on the wall in 10 years’ time.
As the Report so clearly states - the left hand is not sure what the right hand is doing:
67.It is unclear whether the Government’s primary aim of the smart meter rollout is the establishment of a smart energy system (and the realisation of the corresponding benefits of this for efficient energy generation, both now and in the future), or to save individuals money on their energy bills.
The Government needs to do more to communicate the national benefits of smart metering alongside the potential cost savings and efficiencies for individual consumers. This was a weakness of the Government’s evidence check statement, and relates to a lack of clarity over the ‘problem’ that smart meters aim to address.
In its response to this report, the Government should provide further information on how it expects smart metering to affect the required energy generation capacity of the network and the mix of energy generation sources.
The SMETS2 Specification Document now runs to over 800 pages of which 79 pages lists definitions - and the perceived benefit to you and me is an average saving of 7p per day. My smart thermostat saved me over 2500kWhs of gas in the past 12 months.
I will leave it to the OP to try to persuade you that smart meters are the way forward.
It's great that you have a strong opinion on the subject and are bringing this to the table but the point of this thread was to answer questions that i may be able to answer. I'm not trying to persuade anyone. I believe i expressed one opinion in that i don't think we will be paying notably more money for our energy thats it - time will tell.
I agree that moving forward a great lumbering beast of a government controlled system allows technology to streak ahead - smart heating for example, similarly why introduce IHDs when a mobile app would be a much better use of money? All valid questions.
The analogy of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing... i don't see how this applies. The first paragraphs describes the adoption of SMETS1 assets into the DCC and how they will be part of the enduring solution (if a supplier hasn't already swapped it out). The second urges clarity on the purpose of the rollout, and clarity on the direction.
It seems to be saying 'we've got this system, SMETS1 and SMETS2 meters, fit for purpose.. now what was the purpose again?'0 -
Frequency of meter readings
The Supply Licence Conditions give consumers control over the frequency of meter readings their supplier can collect from their smart meter. Suppliers are allowed to collect daily readings from customers unless the customer objects, in which case the supplier provide the option for consumers to opt-out to less regular reading intervals (down to a minimum of monthly readings). If the supplier wishes to take
6 See E lectricity Supply SLC 47.3 - 47.9, G as Supply SLC 41.3 - 41.9
..... more regular readings (ie half-hourly readings) consumers must opt-in to this collection.
Source:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/Energy/Summary%20report%20on%20energy%20suppliers’%20comm unication%20with%20consumers%20regarding%20smart%2 0meter%20data%20(1).pdf
posted by Hengus
It would seem that members of this forum are more clued up on some aspects than the industry experts are.
Yup - you got me... There's not a day goes by in this industry that i don't learn something new! Unfortunately that's the knock on effect with making the thing so complex.0 -
The new meters will use the centralised government regulated data centre and will therefore replace any products that came before it (the Smart Gateway possibly - but OVO may take data from the central platform and present through this - i'm not familiar with it so not sure).
Thank you, beeringo.
The Smart Gateway collects data from the Smart Meter (WIFI, radio) and then uses the Internet to pass the data to Ovo, so the central platform, via 3G radio, would be bypassed in this instance. There is a good level of granularity on the data collection. Below y axis is kW and x axis is time today.
I have osteoarthritis in my hands so I speak my messages into a microphone using Dragon. Some people make "typos" but I often make "speakos".0 -
Will smart meters herald the end of final bills being generated weeks or months or, in some cases, years after the customer has either switched suppliers or moved home?
Will we see an instant final, accurate, bill generated?
Will we see an end to the current situation where a customer moves out and the energy supplies are left powered up - will we see supplies cut off and the next occupier having to contact the supplier to turn on the taps again, and would this have to be the previous occupier's suppliers or can the new occupier choose any supplier from the moment they move in?
In Italy, you can go into the ENEL shop - the national electricity company - and tell them a date and time for the electricity to be cut off and they will do the cutoff remotely. If you then go back to the shop 5 minutes after cutoff they will give you a final bill which you can pay there and then. Will we see a similar system here in the UK?
What is certain is that when moving out or changing supplier that final read will be taken at the exact time and date, stored and sent to the old supplier, BUT it's going to be up to the reliability of the suppliers own systems to get that bill out to you fast.
Switching off the supply when a tenant leaves remotely definitely WILL be possible, with both Gas and Electric (not water). Again that function is optional for the supplier.
A new tenant would have to contact the old supplier to get back on or change supplier as it would be that supplier's security certificate still on the device.
A better system is possible. Technically there is no reason why the ENEL system you described couldnt be implemented here i.e. the meters have the functionality, its just the back end systems that would need to be refined.0 -
Ah well no point bothering with one at my house then, O2 coverage is terrible.
In that case - they'll pop a sticky antenna onto the meter box... if THAT doesnt work they'll pop a bigger sticky antenna onto the box. If that doesn't work hopefully your meter will talk to another meter in the vicinity and pass it through the 'mesh' to the central system.
If that doesn't work another man in a van shows up and pops an antenna on the eaves of your house or in the loft (with your permission obviously).
If that doesnt work they move your house up the hill to get a better coverage :rotfl:
jokes... that last one. Then they give up.0
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