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Who owns the loft space?

rainbow_carnage
rainbow_carnage Posts: 465 Forumite
in House buying, renting & selling
We own a first-floor leasehold flat and would like to convert the loft space above us. The loft space is not mentioned in either our lease or the lease of the downstairs flat. We and the owners of the downstairs flat are jointly responsible for the maintenance and repair of the roof, as well as the outside walls that surround the loft space. There are two water tanks in the loft, one for each flat, though neither is in use.

I'm trying to figure out who owns the loft space. Is it the freeholder? Or is it jointly owned by us and the owners of the downstairs flat?

I would assume that it's the freeholder, but since the two leaseholders and not the freeholder are responsible for the roof, does that mean that we have some claim to the space?

Thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • stator
    stator Posts: 7,441 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
    If it's not mentioned in your lease then the freeholder own it.
    They might be willing to let you develop it, but they would want money.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
  • rainbow_carnage
    rainbow_carnage Posts: 465 Forumite
    stator wrote: »
    If it's not mentioned in your lease then the freeholder own it.
    They might be willing to let you develop it, but they would want money.

    That makes sense, though why are we responsible for maintenance and repair of something that we do not own?
  • aneary
    aneary Posts: 921 Forumite
    rainbow_carnage wrote: »
    That makes sense, though why are we responsible for maintenance and repair of something that we do not own?

    Because if you don't maintain the roof you literally won't have a roof over your head.
  • rainbow_carnage
    rainbow_carnage Posts: 465 Forumite
    aneary wrote: »
    Because if you don't maintain the roof you literally won't have a roof over your head.

    Does the freeholder have any obligations at all with regard to maintenance? It's seems like the leaseholders are responsible for 100% of repairs, both inside and outside the house, while not owning 100% of the space.
  • stator
    stator Posts: 7,441 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
    The freeholder is responsible for whatever it says they are responsible for in the lease.
    Do you know who the freeholder is?
    Do you pay them a service charge/rent?
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    The freeholder is responsible for maintenance of the common parts: structural walls, foundations, roof, shared hallway, shared swimming pool etc.

    However the terms of your lease will almost certainly make you liable for tthe costs the freeholder incurs, sinc you are the beneficiary of these works. Without a proper roof, you will get wet at night in bed.

    Have you read/understood your lease? You paid several £00,000 to buy it, so reading it would make sense........
  • aneary
    aneary Posts: 921 Forumite
    rainbow_carnage wrote: »
    Does the freeholder have any obligations at all with regard to maintenance? It's seems like the leaseholders are responsible for 100% of repairs, both inside and outside the house, while not owning 100% of the space.

    How much do you pay in ground rent, do you pay a service charge and how long is your lease?

    If you pay £50 a year in ground rent and you have a lease of 100 years and no service charge why would you expect the freehold to pay for the maintenance???

    Surely you should have looked into this before buying?
  • rainbow_carnage
    rainbow_carnage Posts: 465 Forumite
    aneary wrote: »
    How much do you pay in ground rent, do you pay a service charge and how long is your lease?

    If you pay £50 a year in ground rent and you have a lease of 100 years and no service charge why would you expect the freehold to pay for the maintenance???

    Surely you should have looked into this before buying?

    I did look into it before buying. The vendor claimed that the loft space was included in the demise. However, this was not in the lease documents. We bought the flat on the assumption that we do not own the space and will need to negotiate with the freeholder.

    We pay no ground rent. As part of the lease extension deal between the previous owner and the freeholder, the ground rent was reduced to peppercorn. He paid around £25k to the freeholder.
  • rainbow_carnage
    rainbow_carnage Posts: 465 Forumite
    G_M wrote: »
    Have you read/understood your lease? You paid several £00,000 to buy it, so reading it would make sense........

    Wow, that's patronising. Did it make you feel better about yourself to write that?

    Of course I read the lease. I also paid a solicitor to read it. I was fairly certain that the freeholder owns the loft, but I wanted to double check with others because our neighbours didn't know, and I was not 100% sure. Obviously, I will get a solicitor when we have to start negotiating with the freeholder, but it's helpful to know where we stand.

    Putting down someone for not being certain about the exact interpretation of arcane legalese is hardly in the spirit of this site.
  • 00ec25
    00ec25 Posts: 9,123 Forumite
    Combo Breaker First Post
    rainbow_carnage wrote: »
    Of course I read the lease. I also paid a solicitor to read it.
    well good because we cannot read it as we can't see it and it contains your answer -

    in the absence of such definitive info, all we can say is the norm would be if not specifically mentioned in the lease then patently the freeholder owns it since you are merely a leaseholder and it is not available for your use since it is not specifically included in your leased demise
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