Parking tickets under scrutiny. Legal loopholes
opportunity_cost
Posts: 358 Forumite
in Motoring
The 'Tonight with Trevor McDonald' program has just done an expose on parking fines. Jonathan Maitland talked to various experts and parking officials and a number of issues were highlighted, namely:
1. The wording that some councils have used on the ticket themselves was wrong and made them unenforceable in a court of law.
(Program said that that was the case at least until November 2005 when a motorist won an appeal on that basis and the councils were advised to revise their wording on penalty tickets. They also added that some people with old tickets are appealing to get their money back on the same basis)
2. In London alone, many parking bays are incorrectly marked and are not found in the Road Traffic Act, therefore making them illegal. Examples given were:
a) parking bays delimited by a double line at one end and a single line at the other end.
b) parking bays where the broken white lines don't cover the lenght of the parking bay in its entirety.
(Parking expert said he's advised people on this matter and that they've won appeals using the Road Traffic Act)
3. Parking signs that also contravene the Road Traffic Act. Examples highlighted were signs at parking bays that should have stopped being used after a given date (1994 was mentioned in one example), making them illegal and unenforceable also.
The parking officials interviewed ackowledged that the issues above could well make a parking fine unenforceable. Their reply to "are you gonna give people affected by this issues their money back?" was along the lines of 'if you pay the fine, you've agreed to it so everything else doesn't matter' and they suggested that people should challenge the fine before paying up if they have any issues with it.
(Program implied that some people are going ahead and launchil appeals using these loopholes and that people are winning appeals and getting their money back)
Even Jonathan Maitland himself - he's disputing a parking fine he got - has managed to get the High Court to review his failed appeal after going with the parking expert advice and using the Road Traffic Act in his defence, so this could be massive
1. The wording that some councils have used on the ticket themselves was wrong and made them unenforceable in a court of law.
(Program said that that was the case at least until November 2005 when a motorist won an appeal on that basis and the councils were advised to revise their wording on penalty tickets. They also added that some people with old tickets are appealing to get their money back on the same basis)
2. In London alone, many parking bays are incorrectly marked and are not found in the Road Traffic Act, therefore making them illegal. Examples given were:
a) parking bays delimited by a double line at one end and a single line at the other end.
b) parking bays where the broken white lines don't cover the lenght of the parking bay in its entirety.
(Parking expert said he's advised people on this matter and that they've won appeals using the Road Traffic Act)
3. Parking signs that also contravene the Road Traffic Act. Examples highlighted were signs at parking bays that should have stopped being used after a given date (1994 was mentioned in one example), making them illegal and unenforceable also.
The parking officials interviewed ackowledged that the issues above could well make a parking fine unenforceable. Their reply to "are you gonna give people affected by this issues their money back?" was along the lines of 'if you pay the fine, you've agreed to it so everything else doesn't matter' and they suggested that people should challenge the fine before paying up if they have any issues with it.
(Program implied that some people are going ahead and launchil appeals using these loopholes and that people are winning appeals and getting their money back)
Even Jonathan Maitland himself - he's disputing a parking fine he got - has managed to get the High Court to review his failed appeal after going with the parking expert advice and using the Road Traffic Act in his defence, so this could be massive
The true cost of something is what you give up to get it.
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Comments
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It does annoy me when they say motorists are using 'Loopholes'.
It has nothing to do with it being a loophole, its more to do with defending a penalty charge / fine / TAX where the law has not been served correctly.
Councils may say loophole, motorist say incompetence. If the council can't get the law right...its their own fault.
If you.....as a motorist , make a tiny mistake, any mistake they hit you with a fine and probably a clamp.
So, the same should happen to the council. If they fail to adhere to the law and not serve the law correctly....why should they keep the fine money ?
I dont suppose you recall the document the expert used to research the road signs
I'm not sure if it were the road traffic act :think: but, I dont think that had diagrams of signs in it :think:
rob
If only everything in life was as reliable...AS ME !!
robowen 5/6/2005©
''Never take an idiot anywhere with you. You'll always find one when you get there.''0 -
If you go to https://www.rmbconsulting.co.uk then select "faqs", under parking
info is a link to the relevant government website on regs. relating to road
signs etc.
Richards site has been upgraded and sadly not for the better. It now has had
flash added which lengthens loading times and many helpful diagrams on
errors in signage have been removed. Nevertheless this appears to be the only site I can find that helps determine whether parking and speeding signs have been lawfully erected.0 -
Here is one of the websites that was mentioned...
http://www.ticketbusters.co.uk/
Also this one...
http://www.appealnow.com/
Although I am not a driver, I have a feeling that this thread will run and run...
Robowen,
I think this is the info you are after re the Acts...
The 1991 Road Traffic Act (decriminalised) and The 1984 Road Traffic Regulation Act (criminalised).
See this link for further information...
http://neilherron.blogspot.com/2005/11/attention-motorists-parking-issue.html“Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.” - Oscar Wilde0 -
must confess..
last time i drove past a traffic warden in town, i tossed a 7/8 full large Maccy D milkshake out my window (minus its lid) and scored a direct hit. Bearing in mind it as a busy Saturday afternoon all I got was cheers from about 15 pedestrians and toots from a lot of car drivers 0 -
You will want to look up Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2005
And
Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002
Not light reading though.I have a cunning plan!
Proud to be dealing with my debts.0 -
I have been issued with a parking ticket today, in a council car park because the ticket that I had paid for and displayed blew over either when I shut my door or because air blew through the vents on my dashboard. The ticket was not self adhesive so there was no way to secure the ticket and quite honestly I didn't consider the need to do so. On returning to my car, with the ticket still valid, I found a fixed penalty notice on the windscreen. The parking attendant was still near my car so I showed him my valid ticket and the penalty notice. He told me that it was my responsibility to ensure that the ticket was displayed properly and that most people like me were "con artists trying to get away with using old tickets" He told me that he had photographic evidence that the ticket was 180'd. He admitted the ticket was valid but that was not his problem so he would not cancel the ticket. I pointed out that there was no way to stick the ticket in place and that it was a windy day. I was told that I would have to phone the council but bthat they would not cancel it either as it was my fault. Do I have any chance of having this ticket cancelled?0
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Holy thread resurrection, Batman!
Try posting in the Parking Fines section :rotfl:0
This discussion has been closed.
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