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pcn to registered keeper

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1246723

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  • Pdmum
    Pdmum Posts: 127 Forumite
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    Thank you so much for all your help x
  • Pdmum
    Pdmum Posts: 127 Forumite
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    I have now received pcn evidence from POPLA.
    They have stated 2 reasons for the pcn. The original reason as shown on their copy sent to myself. Later they are saying that the vehicle was parked also the day before and that is a combined reason for the pcn, ie *hours * mins which is not what i am appealing against.Basically they are contradicting themselves.
    Also their copy of landowner contract shows date tbc which has been crossed out and a date handwritten onto the typed document. Parts appear to be missing and i cant find any trace of the ltd company who they say have signed on behalf of the client.
    What do i do now, would it be helpful to copy their reply on here?
    Thanks
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    Pdmum wrote: »
    ...would it be helpful to copy their reply on here?
    Yes, please do that.
  • Pdmum
    Pdmum Posts: 127 Forumite
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    This is the case summary.


    We have placed a number of signs around the location which have been approved by the BPA Auditing Team. Our signs follow a tried and tested method to grab the attention of all motorists entering the location. Our signs outline the terms and conditions so a motorist is able to decide whether they wish to stay or remain and abide by the terms. By designing our signs in the way that we have we believe that we are fully compliant with the BPA Code of Practice and have brought the issue of a PCN, and its amount, to the adequate attention of the motorist. Signs – according to British Parking Association Code of Practice 18.2 Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is recommended that you follow Department for Transport guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an entrance sign and more information about their use. The sign at the entrance does meet all of the BPAs guidance. The motorist would not be doing 30mph at this point as there is an approach and the motorist is not directly entering the car park from the road. 18.3 Specific parking-terms signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm We enclose copies of the signage at this site. The Appellant has not denied seeing said signage. The signage clearly states: Please pay for your stay. Please enter the full, correct, vehicle registration details at the payment terminal, of the vehicle you are parking. Charges apply at all times. • All permit holders must have their vehicle pre registered before using the car park. • Park only within marked bays. • No stopping or waiting. If you cannot pay for any reason do not park. • Blue badge concessions do not apply. • The xxxxxx is not involved in the parking management of this car park and cannot intervene in any disputes. • Camera enforcement in operation. Images captured are used for parking enforcement purposes. • Parking period commences 5 minutes after entry. • Pay by Phone It also states that if you enter or park on this land, contravening the terms and conditions displayed, you are agreeing to pay a £100 Parking Charge Notice. This car park is run by ANPR cameras which take a photograph using infrared technology to capture vehicles as they enter and exit this site. These photographs are time and date stamped. To complete a successful paid parking session the driver must follow the correct process in order to pay for their stay, whether from the machine or via RingGo. The vehicle entered the site at 19:55. We can confirm that a 2 hour parking session was purchased at 19:57. Therefore, the driver was able to read the signage and be aware of the terms and conditions. The parking session expired at 21:57 and the Appellants vehicle exited the site at 22:13, 16 minutes after the parking session expired. When entering onto a managed private car park, a motorist might enter into a contract by remaining on the land for a reasonable period. The signage at the site sets out the terms and conditions of this contract. Therefore, upon entry to the car park, the driver should have reviewed the terms and conditions before deciding to park. 13 Grace periods – according to the British Parking Association Code of Practice 13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice. 13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action. 13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes. The Appellants vehicle exited the site 16 minutes after the parking session expired, exceeding the minimum grace period of 10 minutes, as set by the BPA. The Appellants vehicle remained parked on site and the driver agreed to the terms and conditions. If the driver felt, for any reason, that they were not able to adhere to the terms and conditions, then they would have had sufficient opportunity to choose not to park and depart the site. We have provided a log showing that the Appellants vehicle had been parked on site the day prior to the date of the contravention and therefore the driver had sufficient opportunity to be aware of the terms and conditions. The Appellant’s vehicle was parked for 4hours and 21 minutes but payment was only made for 4 hours. Therefore, an unpaid parking session occurred and a Parking Charge Notice was issued. It is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that they have read and parked in compliance with the terms and conditions. On this occasion, the Appellant did not. We request that this appeal be refused. With regards to the appellant’s remarks that the parking charge notice is punitive and unreasonable and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss, we refer you to the recent Supreme Court decision dated 4th November 2015, Parking Eye Ltd-v-Mr Barry Beavis. Details on the case be found at https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0116.html. This case was seen as an important ‘test case’ due to the complex legal arguments used by both sides. The ruling sets a legally binding precedent on all similar cases for the whole of the United Kingdom.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    Now can you please make it readable.

    Help others to help you. :D
  • Pdmum
    Pdmum Posts: 127 Forumite
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    Sorry am not sure what you mean Keith, i can see it. Did you mean for me to post the whole 50 pages!
    What i have posted is just the summary
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    A wall of words is not readable, I for one, won't even attempt to read that as yet.

    Paragraph it please - each bullet point on a separate line, nice short paragraphs.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    I can see it too, but I cannot even think about reading it.
  • Pdmum
    Pdmum Posts: 127 Forumite
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    Did you want me to just pick out the bits i think may be relevant.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    No, divide it up into paragraphs, it will take you about 2 minutes of editing.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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