How would you stop cowboy builders before they cause problems?
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Doozergirl wrote: »I'm certainly struggling with how the concept of a consumer paying a large deposit into a scheme is better for a client than keeping the retention money themselves.
A retention is of no use whatsoever if you get near the end of the work, the builder has lied about BC saying they did not want to see it until a late stage, and all the work is then condemned by BC.
How do you think a retention helps in this scenario?
A retention is useful for snagging, but not for cowboy work.0 -
Murphybear wrote: »We haven't needed a builder for years but did have the following experience. We had a bungalow with a sloping drive which was in poor condition. We decided to get it block paved. We were new to the area and didn't know anyone who had work done. We got some quotes and went with the one we chose for the following reason. After giving us the quote he said he wouldn't need any money upfront, he would do the work and he only wanted paying when it was complete and we were happy;). We did this and he made a superb job of it and built us a lovely wall as well. I don't know if this an unusual way of doing business but it worked for us.
This is a common way for driveway installers to work. However, try finding a builder to do an extension on this basis. If you find one, please let me know as I don't think they exist.
It's not really small jobs that are the problem, it's the larger jobs where builders want staged payments.0 -
A retention is of no use whatsoever if you get near the end of the work, the builder has lied about BC saying they did not want to see it until a late stage, and all the work is then condemned by BC.
How do you think a retention helps in this scenario?
A retention is useful for snagging, but not for cowboy work.
Because if you use a standard contract, the work will have been inspected throughout and only the value of works on site will have been paid for (minus any defective works which don't meet regulations)
Holding the money yourself in your own account is surely a better solution than putting money into a suppliers special account?
Also you were saying this was to protect yourself against a contractor going bust, nothing at all to do with defective works...0 -
the_r_sole wrote: »Holding the money yourself in your own account is surely a better solution than putting money into a suppliers special account?
I never mentioned a supplier's account. Where do you get this from?
Also you were saying this was to protect yourself against a contractor going bust, nothing at all to do with defective works...
I also never mentioned anything about a contractor going bankrupt. My comments are purely about cowboy builders.0 -
One interesting thing I came across recently when I ordered some flooring, was that the small local shop where I ordered belongs to a deposit scheme. I paid a deposit, and it is lodged within a scheme so if the shop goes out of business or anything happens my money will be returned to me.
Maybe something like this could work in the building industry? They have done a similar thing for letting agents who hold deposits from people who rent property.
No, you didn't mention a deposit scheme run by a flooring supplier which protects against a company going out of business.... which was what my comment on retentions addressed.
It's impossible to discuss with you when you don't take on board or even try to understand what you are being told. A retention in a formal contract would offer this protection, similarly a performance bond would and it would mean the money isn't paid out at all until a specified date, well after completion.
Contracts protect against contractors going bust, work not being done to statutory regulations, paying upfront for work etc etc but the way you'll see it is that's me trying to blame customers or protect builders or some other nonsense.
There's no point adding anything further, it's hitting a brick wall with someone that has a tiny bit of knowledge but knows better than everyone else, some of who spend their professional lives involved in the industry.0 -
The OP's situation would have been very easy to avoid.
DO NOT MAKE PAYMENTS IN ADVANCE!
Industry standard is to make payments in arrears once agreed stages have been completed and approved. How many times do people have to be told this?0 -
In order to stop cowboys, then, the points you mention should be compulsory, and obviously they are not.
Maybe the genuine builders are using such methods, but I have no problem with them, it's the cowboys I'm trying to address.0 -
The OP's situation would have been very easy to avoid.
DO NOT MAKE PAYMENTS IN ADVANCE!
Industry standard is to make payments in arrears once agreed stages have been completed and approved. How many times do people have to be told this?
You try and find a builder in this area who will do this. Typing in capitals does not add anything to your point, it just makes you sound hysterical.
To turn your point around and address the question I originally asked, then, maybe it should be prohibited for builders to take payment in advance? This type of regulation would indeed be very helpful, but I can't see any of the builders in this area complying with it.0 -
the_r_sole wrote: »No, you didn't mention a deposit scheme run by a flooring supplier which protects against a company going out of business.... which was what my comment on retentions addressed.
QUOTE]
Ah, yes, I see what you mean. That was an example for a fairly small sum of money, and I suspect the format of any such scheme would need to be varied for the much larger sums paid to builders for something like an extension. An escrow, perhaps?
It would need to be tied in to an arbitration scheme in case a dispute arose. Of course, the majority of contracts would not end in a dispute, only a small percentage.0 -
61 posts in and we're finally told what the agenda is. You might be annoyed, but it clouds your perception of everything we say and it clouds the way that you address people on this board.
In all the posts on this board about cowboy builders, the vast majority of people do not follow any kind of process. Post this morning about a veritable stranger being given the keys to a job and left to it, I presume having been paid, is a case in point. Regulation isn't really going to stop people on either side behaving that way.
Regulation may have helped you, or perhaps helped the person after you, but we don't know the full story. It is quite usual not to see the building inspector between floor slab and roof on and it's also quite normal to send photos to the inspector as evidence of insulation etc.Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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