Ombudsman rejected S75 Claim for £12,250.What next?

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  • onyx911
    onyx911 Posts: 108 Forumite
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    Manxman_in_exile wrote: »
    I think that if I were in your position I would be seriously considering this. You get the kitchen (more or less) that you want, without losing the deposit. It'll cost a bit more than you originally bargained for, but may be worth it if you get (more or less) what you originally wanted.


    But make sure you get a good joiner/carpenter. (Do your research. It's the sort of decision I hate having to make. I'd go with personal recommendations, but I think you said earlier the original builder had been recommended!)


    Good luck


    (Edit: but if you have faith in your barrister - you've used them in the earlier settlement? - see what they think about this idea)

    Thank you. We've definitely learned a lesson regarding trademan. The new building firm are a local family run company, well known locally, members of the FMB, very high rating on checkatrade etc. They are a lot more expensive and the settlement doesn't nearly cover their cost but we didn't want to take any chances this time. My new moto in life is "pay peanuts, get monkeys"

    I have sent the documents to the barrister and his clerk is going to come back to me with a fee on Monday. I hope its reasonable because he was very good.
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 17,636 Forumite
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    onyx911 wrote: »
    members of the FMB, very high rating on checkatrade.

    Unfortunately, membership of the FMB isn't a guarantee of anything, it is very easy to become a member. I'm not sure how reliable checkatrade is for sourcing good tradespeople.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • onyx911
    onyx911 Posts: 108 Forumite
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    lincroft1710 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, membership of the FMB isn't a guarantee of anything, it is very easy to become a member. I'm not sure how reliable checkatrade is for sourcing good tradespeople.

    Thank you. It's very difficult to find someone reliable and trustworthy.

    We are at the tail end of our extension and the builder seems to be doing a good job. The Local Authority building control (didn't use private inspector this time) have been really good. They were obviously well aware of what happened with previous builder/building control and they've been very thorough in their inspections, even knocking on the door or calling after every inspection to confirm what they checked. I didn't ask them to do this.

    Almost felt sorry for the new builder who has been in the business for 37 years and never been scrutinised like this! To be fair, he hasn't complained and always maintained he is happy for his work to be thoroughly inspected.

    Lesson definitely learned.
  • neilmcl
    neilmcl Posts: 19,460 Forumite
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    lincroft1710 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, membership of the FMB isn't a guarantee of anything, it is very easy to become a member. I'm not sure how reliable checkatrade is for sourcing good tradespeople.
    They tend to be better then most of the others as they do, as the name suggests, check all sorts of things such as references, qualifications and accreditations, id checks, insurance as well as actually interviewing the trader.
  • angryparcel
    angryparcel Posts: 926 Forumite
    onyx911 wrote: »
    members of the FMB,
    That means nothing. a few year back my brother had an extension build and the quality of work was shocking.
    The builder was a member of the FMB, so my brother contacted them and the sent out an inspector to have a look ( but inspector is just another builder), he agreed the work was shoddy, so he put report into the FMB who told the builder to return and fix things, he returned once to remove the patio doors to put them in the right way round ( yes he had the inside of the door on the outside) and he never returned to put anything else right. FMB could not force the builder to return
  • Blackbeard_of_Perranporth
    Blackbeard_of_Perranporth Posts: 7,605 Forumite
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    edited 10 June 2017 at 3:55PM
    Don't tell me. Another job done on the cheap and no sign of an architect?
  • bris
    bris Posts: 10,548 Forumite
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    onyx911 wrote: »
    Out of interest, where is it you think I have breached the contract? There was no completion date and no one has ever suggested a breach on our part so I'm interested.
    When you first entered into the contract you would have given them a rough estimate, i.e "the builder reckons he will be done in around 12 weeks". This is a guide for the kitchen seller.


    When the timescale over that becomes unreasonable then they can or may be able to force your hand by issuing you with a "time is of the essence" letter giving you a deadline. Two years is a significant delay that could easily be considered unreasonable. I never not said they ever suggested you were in breach but that they could have. The seller has been patient with you but your delays have meant a cost increase not of there doing. The below quote was taken from a solicitors website explaining time is of the essence in contracts.


    3. a party who has been subjected to unreasonable delay gives notice to the other party and makes time of the essence.
  • onyx911
    onyx911 Posts: 108 Forumite
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    edited 11 June 2017 at 8:01AM
    bris wrote: »
    When you first entered into the contract you would have given them a rough estimate, i.e "the builder reckons he will be done in around 12 weeks". This is a guide for the kitchen seller.


    When the timescale over that becomes unreasonable then they can or may be able to force your hand by issuing you with a "time is of the essence" letter giving you a deadline. Two years is a significant delay that could easily be considered unreasonable. I never not said they ever suggested you were in breach but that they could have. The seller has been patient with you but your delays have meant a cost increase not of there doing. The below quote was taken from a solicitors website explaining time is of the essence in contracts.


    3. a party who has been subjected to unreasonable delay gives notice to the other party and makes time of the essence.

    Wrong again. I'll never know why people are quick to make assumptions. If original post is too long to read then ask questions. We did not give an estimate of time frame. We had literally just started the extension. The seller said to call them when we were 12 weeks away from kitchen being fitted. If it's not clear from that statement then let me state we were considerably more than 12 weeks away.

    Now that you've mentioned it, it would have been sensible for the seller to tell us to wait until that 12 week mark before taking our order. Definitely makes more sense than taking an order for some time in the foreseeable future.

    Yes the seller would not have expected it to be a year before we were ready to give an estimated completion date but to keep suggesting there was an agreed date is factually incorrect.

    Regarding time is of the essence, there would have to have been a clause in the contract to apply this. Commonly used in new build and construction contracts. My first job after university (many moons ago) was for a National housebuilder. The vast majority of houses back then were bought off plan - (in some cases 2 years or more before completion) When the completion date is not known then a clause is provided for completion to take place on x number of days notice given by the seller. If this date was then not met, either party could serve notice requiring the other to complete. Whenever we served this notice, we stated that time was of the essence.

    This is not something the kitchen seller included in their contract. There was no clause requiring the contract to be completed. Only a clause stating that we can't hold the seller liable for any delays to the delivery or installation of the kitchen.. This goes back to my earlier point about making assumptions.
  • onyx911
    onyx911 Posts: 108 Forumite
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    Blackbeard_of_Perranporth wrote: »
    Don't tell me. Another job done on the cheap and no sign of an architect?

    I don't know if this was directed at me or the poster above me. In case it was me, no, not done on the cheap. There was an architect and we have plans/ planning permission. There was a structural engineer and plans passed by building control. Original builder wasn't cheap, but he was cheaper than the new builder.
  • GDB2222
    GDB2222 Posts: 24,660 Forumite
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    onyx911 wrote: »
    Wrong again. I'll never know why people are quick to make assumptions. If original post is too long to read then ask questions. We did not give an estimate of time frame. We had literally just started the extension. The seller said to call them when we were 12 weeks away from kitchen being fitted. If it's not clear from that statement then let me state we were considerably more than 12 weeks away.

    Now that you've mentioned it, it would have been sensible for the seller to tell us to wait until that 12 week mark before taking our order. Definitely makes more sense than taking an order for some time in the foreseeable future.

    Yes the seller would not have expected it to be a year before we were ready to give an estimated completion date but to keep suggesting there was an agreed date is factually incorrect.

    Regarding time is of the essence, there would have to have been a clause in the contract to apply this. Commonly used in new build and construction contracts. My first job after university (many moons ago) was for a National housebuilder. The vast majority of houses back then were bought off plan - (in some cases 2 years or more before completion) When the completion date is not known then a clause is provided for completion to take place on x number of days notice given by the seller. If this date was then not met, either party could serve notice requiring the other to complete. Whenever we served this notice, we stated that time was of the essence.

    This is not something the kitchen seller included in their contract. There was no clause requiring the contract to be completed. Only a clause stating that we can't hold the seller liable for any delays to the delivery or installation of the kitchen.. This goes back to my earlier point about making assumptions.

    Obviously, nobody here has seen your contract with the seller. I have assumed that there are contract terms dealing with the situation where there's a prolonged delay, or at least implied terms. You are suggesting that any such terms not in your favour must fall foul of the consumer rights act, but that clearly depends on what is in the details. I would be interested in what your barrister says.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
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