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  • FIRST POST
    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 6th Apr 17, 6:09 PM
    • 2,457Posts
    • 1,448Thanks
    chrismac1
    SIX tax returns per year coming soon
    • #1
    • 6th Apr 17, 6:09 PM
    SIX tax returns per year coming soon 6th Apr 17 at 6:09 PM
    It has become apparent that Making Tax Diabolical is even worse than previously advertised. Not one, not even 4 or 5, but SIX tax submissions in respect of each tax year.

    Unbelievably crass and stupid drivel from HMRC.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
Page 1
    • Wayne O Mac
    • By Wayne O Mac 6th Apr 17, 6:26 PM
    • 206 Posts
    • 259 Thanks
    Wayne O Mac
    • #2
    • 6th Apr 17, 6:26 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Apr 17, 6:26 PM
    What a balanced and well-reasoned post.

    Good work Chris, a credit to your profession as usual.
    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 6th Apr 17, 6:35 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
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    chrismac1
    • #3
    • 6th Apr 17, 6:35 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Apr 17, 6:35 PM
    Anyone on here want to put their hands up and volunteer for six tax returns per year? I suppose the previous poster must be at the front of the queue.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
    • alewin
    • By alewin 6th Apr 17, 6:52 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    alewin
    • #4
    • 6th Apr 17, 6:52 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Apr 17, 6:52 PM
    Anyone on here want to put their hands up and volunteer for six tax returns per year? I suppose the previous poster must be at the front of the queue.
    Originally posted by chrismac1
    Count me in.
    Twelve a year would be nice, one at the end of each month.
    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 6th Apr 17, 7:01 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
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    chrismac1
    • #5
    • 6th Apr 17, 7:01 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Apr 17, 7:01 PM
    So for those people in the pilot HMRC are running for 2017-18 tax return which started today, here is the schedule for a sole trader with year ending 31 Mar 18:

    Quarterly Submission 1 by 31 Jul 17
    Quarterly Submission 2 by 31 Oct 17
    Quarterly Submission 3 by 31 Jan 18
    Quarterly Submission 4 by 30 Apr 18
    End of period submission by 31 Jan 19
    Final declaration by 31 Jan 19

    Note that a 31 Mar year end is the only one where the end of period deadline and final deadline are the same date.

    It should not have escaped your attention that if you are not in the pilot, your timetable is as follows:

    Self-assessment tax return by 31 Jan 19

    Clearly Wayne O Mac prefers the first option with the 6 submissions, but does anyone else?
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
    • theburningcat
    • By theburningcat 7th Apr 17, 1:39 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    theburningcat
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 17, 1:39 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 17, 1:39 PM
    Put it in your diary along with the quarterly VAT return and VAT MOSS return, annual confirmation statement and CT return, RTI filings, auto enrolments and PAYE payments - simples!

    Then leave the diary behind and move somewhere with less tax and less tax headaches.
    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 7th Apr 17, 1:44 PM
    • 506 Posts
    • 1,070 Thanks
    Tammykitty
    • #7
    • 7th Apr 17, 1:44 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Apr 17, 1:44 PM
    Put it in your diary along with the quarterly VAT return and VAT MOSS return, annual confirmation statement and CT return, RTI filings, auto enrolments and PAYE payments - simples!

    Then leave the diary behind and move somewhere with less tax and less tax headaches.
    Originally posted by theburningcat


    At least these are at over £85k turnover


    The new quarterly returns will be for anyone with over £10k turnover eventually


    IMO - its far too much.


    I don't know how farmers and construction workers will cope - its hard enough getting them to do a tax return once a year!
    Weight Loss Challenge
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    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 7th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
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    chrismac1
    • #8
    • 7th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    Only the idiots who work for HMRC think this can possibly work. MTD demonstrates clearly just how out of touch they are with reality. Also how arrogant they are - even ignoring House of Commons and House of Lords Select Committees, to name just two of the bodies that have trashed these plans.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
    • pjcox2005
    • By pjcox2005 7th Apr 17, 5:25 PM
    • 453 Posts
    • 451 Thanks
    pjcox2005
    • #9
    • 7th Apr 17, 5:25 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Apr 17, 5:25 PM
    Whilst it's potentially too onerous a burden, quarterly would potentially mean people take more responsibility for their tax affairs, stay on top of it, and get in less of a muddle at year end where the records/information can be poor and dated.
    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 7th Apr 17, 6:11 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 1,448 Thanks
    chrismac1
    I totally agree the last point. The problem is mandation - i.e. forcing people into this at gunpoint, or at least at the point of hefty fines every quarter. The other thing wrong with this is forcing people into software products, some of which have major weaknesses and / or are owned by companies with dodgy balance sheets.

    Business owners should be free to use papyrus, so long as that results in complete and accurate records.

    The other thing wrong with this is the state HMRC is currently in. There are mispostings and errors wherever you look in the HMRC database on every tax. it has never been a worse mess, the last thing it needs is data overload and all its best data staff working on this vanity project.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 7th Apr 17, 10:28 PM
    • 7,285 Posts
    • 12,169 Thanks
    dori2o
    It has become apparent that Making Tax Diabolical is even worse than previously advertised. Not one, not even 4 or 5, but SIX tax submissions in respect of each tax year.

    Unbelievably crass and stupid drivel from HMRC.
    Originally posted by chrismac1
    Yet more drivel from this idiot.

    Yet again you fail to acknowledge that this whole issue is legislated, planned and implemented by HM Treasury, not HMRC.
    To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 8th Apr 17, 6:23 AM
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    chrismac1
    In this instance, HMRC has been given 1.3 billion by the Treasury and this MTD drivel is what they have chosen to waste it on. There are a thousand ways this money could be better spent, more staff who actually understand UK tax laws would be a great start for example.

    But oh no we get a stupid vanity project which will end in tears instead.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
    • longforgotten
    • By longforgotten 8th Apr 17, 9:45 PM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 673 Thanks
    longforgotten
    I don't care who it is that is bringing this in they must live on planet Zog. They should join the real world where clients bring their info in in a carrier bag and even then it's not all there. What happens to the guy who at 80+ has been happily farming for donkeys years , writing up his vat with his trusy pen in his VAT book...........My intention is to leave my accountancy job before the you know what hits the fan. I'm too old in the tooth to watch our clients stuggle and would get far too annoyed to stay and see it. The situation is totally unbelievable. It's all very sad.


    Why should people conform to some idiots idea that we all have a computer !
    Last edited by longforgotten; 08-04-2017 at 10:44 PM.
    • MMF007
    • By MMF007 8th Apr 17, 9:54 PM
    • 867 Posts
    • 20,395 Thanks
    MMF007
    Naive question, but why is the threshold for doing more frequent returns £10,000 when tax threshold is currently £11,500?
    I have changed my work-life balance to a life-work balance.
    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 9th Apr 17, 7:33 AM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 1,448 Thanks
    chrismac1
    Don't look for logic in the HMRC strategy on this. Other than the logical fact that the opportunity to fine taxpayers six times as often will deliver more revenue from fines.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
    • longforgotten
    • By longforgotten 14th Jul 17, 8:07 PM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 673 Thanks
    longforgotten
    Delayed until 2020 except for VAT
    Thank goodness they are delaying MTD .......


    https://www.cchdaily.co.uk/making-tax-digital-delayed-until-least-2020-except-vat
    • chrismac1
    • By chrismac1 15th Jul 17, 7:44 AM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 1,448 Thanks
    chrismac1
    For once the right tears are being shed - by the Numpty Department of HMRC, instead of the millions of victims who would have had all sorts of problems if MTD had not been axed.

    Note that I appreciate it has not officially been axed. Nor has "Business Record Checks" officially been axed I believe. Vanity projects can't be officially axed as that involves too much loss of vanity, instead they are quietly strangled over a period of years. No blood on the streets, just a slow death by lack of oxygen, in this case staff and funding.
    Last edited by chrismac1; 15-07-2017 at 8:14 AM.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
    • purdyoaten2
    • By purdyoaten2 16th Jul 17, 9:30 PM
    • 659 Posts
    • 291 Thanks
    purdyoaten2
    Anyone know if the delay applies to businesses whose turnover is above the VAT threshold but are not registered for VAT?
    purdyoaten lost his password
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