non UK resident with UK pension plan

2

Comments

  • Why are you so reluctant to say which country you are tax resident in? Without that information it is impossible to answer your question with any confidence.

    It might be impossible for you to answer the question but certainly not because of the identity of my tax residence. I know my local tax situation and it's not relevant to the question as I'm asking for solution that applies only to UK tax.

    For argument sake, say I live in Dubai where I don't pay tax, how is this going to change my tax strategy in withdrawing my UK pension funds.

    it's ok if you don't know how to answer, just don't push my thread in the wrong direction.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,358 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    If you know your tax situation then why are you asking on the internet about it?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • dunstonh wrote: »
    If you know your tax situation then why are you asking on the internet about it?

    If you bother to read carefully, I said I know my local tax situation and I'm asking about the UK tax situation. But you're right, it's been a waste of time asking for help in this forum.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Tell your pension providers that you are not tax resident in the UK. They will not deduct income tax. You can take the lot free of UK income tax provided you do not become a tax resident in the UK for the next three or so years.

    Whether they offer the options needed for you to do this and whether they are willing to use them for a non-UK resident depends on the firm, as do the charges. You'll need to check with them to find out. A transfer to another scheme is possible but most UK schemes will not accept new foreign customers, though some will. AJ Bell has at least one product that does, though it does require payments to go to a UK bank account.
  • @jamesd. Much more helpful thanks!
    jamesd wrote: »
    Tell your pension providers that you are not tax resident in the UK. They will not deduct income tax.

    I spoke to the service provider and after more research, the withdrawal will be subject to the 25/75 rule and tax will be withheld irrespective of whether I am a UK tax resident or not, as a PAYE contribution. Moreover, the tax will be withheld at the emergency code rates, and even subsequent withdrawals will incur this emergency rate even when the code is updated.
    jamesd wrote: »
    You can take the lot free of UK income tax provided you do not become a tax resident in the UK for the next three or so years.

    I hope you're right about that but from reading the UK tax guide, it doesn't seem likely as this will be treated as UK income. Again, I hope you're right.

    As for my country of residence, it seems relevant only in that when the reclaim is done, the personal allowance of 11K is allowed only for residents of certain countries, and relevant only for UK taxes.

    The question now is what is the optimal amount to withdraw each year, to keep to the 20% bracket and how to file the reclaim.

    There is no other UK income and I don't need to roll over into any other pension or annuity schemes, nor make any further contributions. I just want to cash out and it doesn't affect my tax situation in the country where I reside.
  • bigadaj
    bigadaj Posts: 11,531 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    From a put uk point of view you can take that sum out in two years and pay less than 20% tax on the withdrawal. So £50k each year would have 25% tax free, plus your personal allowance of £11k with no other uk income. This means that £23.5k that should be tax free with the balance at 20%, you could of course take ,ore out in the first year as there is a spare amount up yo the higher rate tax band, but withdrawing some now would mean you'd only have to wait until next April to withdraw the remainder.
  • JasonPr
    JasonPr Posts: 127 Forumite
    As for my country of residence, it seems relevant only in that when the reclaim is done, the personal allowance of 11K is allowed only for residents of certain countries, and relevant only for UK taxes.

    Despite what your pension provider says, I don't believe this money is taxable in the UK. However, I wanted to point out that citizens of certain countries get the personal allowance. I didn't see your nationality but if you're British or EU you will get the personal allowance.

    (Note that there are discussions to remove the personal allowance for non-residents but I don't know if/when that will happen.)
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 25 August 2016 at 1:16AM
    I spoke to the service provider and after more research, the withdrawal will be subject to the 25/75 rule and tax will be withheld irrespective of whether I am a UK tax resident or not, as a PAYE contribution. Moreover, the tax will be withheld at the emergency code rates, and even subsequent withdrawals will incur this emergency rate even when the code is updated.
    That's the basic position but typically not the true final position, which varies depending on your place of tax residence. To get started have a read of The ultimate pension freedom: Retire in Portugal and reduce your tax the key part of which for your question is:

    "Britain has double tax treaties with most countries around the world that prevent you from having to pay tax in both of the jurisdictions. These treaties stipulate that your personal pension, which includes employer schemes and personal accounts such as Sipps (self-invested personal pensions), and your state pension, are only taxable in the country in which you live."

    So if you live in a country with a 0% income tax rate on foreign pension income and that country has a typical tax treaty with Britain, 0% is the income tax rate due on the taxable 75%.

    The Portugal case is perhaps most prominently known and allows "new arrivals who become tax resident to take all foreign sources of income such as pensions tax free for the first 10 years". You can read more about the Portugal situation and the related Uk legislation in the topic Extracting pension pots: the Portugal plan but the relevant UK rules aren't specific to Portugal. Portugal and some other countries also covered in Retire abroad? The country offering tax-free pensions.

    On the UK end, see the government page Tax on your UK income if you live abroad to get started. Assuming that you're in a country with a relevant tax treaty you would could inform HMRC so a correct tax code can be issued to the pension provider or claim back the overpaid income tax (all of it) with a tax return or R43 form. For a tax code to be issued at least one (small ideally) payment would need to be made so that HMRC has the appropriate PAYE reference information to send one to them.

    Hopefully that will point you in the right general direction, and hopefully you're in a country with a tax treaty with the relevant term about income being taxable in the country of residence, not country of origin.

    Don't be surprised about pension providers getting this wrong, if you are in such a country, it's a relatively niche area.

    Hopefully the reason why dunstonh mentioned the need to know your country of tax residence is more apparent now, it really does end up mattering greatly for your situation. Indeed, if you're comfortable disclosing it you would be well served by editing your first post and going to advanced editing then changing the title to include it so those familiar with that specific country are more likely to notice it. Mentioning AJ Bell would also be desirable since there's an extremely well informed poster who may notice the post and comment on what they would want/be able to do in your situation.
  • jamesd wrote: »
    That's the basic position but typically not the true final position, which varies depending on your place of tax residence. To get started have a read of ... the key part of which for your question is:

    "Britain has double tax treaties with most countries around the world that prevent you from having to pay tax in both of the jurisdictions. These treaties stipulate that your personal pension, which includes employer schemes and personal accounts such as Sipps (self-invested personal pensions), and your state pension, are only taxable in the country in which you live."

    So if you live in a country with a 0% income tax rate on foreign pension income and that country has a typical tax treaty with Britain, 0% is the income tax rate due on the taxable 75%.

    Yes thank you, that's very helpful. That angle seems a bit obscure and seems like a loophole but certainly worthy of pursuit.
    jamesd wrote: »
    Hopefully the reason why dunstonh mentioned the need to know your country of tax residence is more apparent now, it really does end up mattering greatly for your situation.

    Yes, and I do apologise for my short sightedness.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Well, it's a bit of a potential loophole but if you read the other topic here about Portugal that I linked to you'll find that it's specifically covered in UK legislation so that those who have left the UK can do it, with that return to the UK within a few years and you have to pay the tax originally due bit the aspect that closes the ability to use it as a loophole rather than if genuinely not UK resident like you. For you it's just things working as the government intended when the legislation was introduced.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards