Boundary dispute - Land Registry Representative help please

Silver_Shark · 16 October 2016 at 4:01AM

We purchased our home twenty years ago on a new development. The neighbouring property has recently been sold to a housing association.

The day after completion they gave us seven days to remove a fence which they claimed was incorrectly situated and there was a portion of land belonging to their property.

We were able to prove from photographs that the boundary fences were the original fences erected by the builders and we had gained a portion of land that we should not have. As we had occupied the land for twenty years we went to a solicitor who agreed that adverse possession was applicable. He dealt with it by means of an affidavit to vary the title deeds. Our solicitor sent a transfer document to the housing association, but they will not deal with it unless all their legal costs are paid by us.

Our position is that the housing association raised the dispute and we feel that we should not have to pay their legal costs as we have to pay to rectify the plans anyway. Our solicitor has advised that arguing adverse possession would cost much more than agreeing to transfer the land voluntarily.

To get to this stage has taken six months and several hundred pounds. We are looking for advice as we are not in a position to spend a lot of money to rectify this situation and we do not wish to pay the housing association's costs also.

Any ideas on how we move forward.

Doozergirl · 16 October 2016 at 9:01AM

So you want your cake and to eat it?

I'm having trouble with the logic of expecting someone else to pay for you gaining a free piece of land. There's money saving and then there's taking the proverbial.

warby68 · 16 October 2016 at 9:06AM

Or you could give the land back?

I'm guessing OP feels that as it wasn't their fault (developer put the fence where it is) they shouldn't have to pay. But it isn't the new owner's fault either by the looks of it. Pursuing the developer from 20y ago seems the right kind of direction for blame but would presumably cost even more.

Might just be one of those things where you have to bear a bit of pain to keep the gain! And here the gain is that the HA are willing to give you the land if you pay the costs without making you fight too much or give it back - that is actually a pretty reasonable outcome.

Doozergirl · 16 October 2016 at 9:14AM

warby68 wrote: »

Or you could give the land back?

I'm guessing OP feels that as it wasn't their fault (developer put the fence where it is) they shouldn't have to pay. But it isn't the new owner's fault either by the looks of it. Pursuing the developer from 20y ago seems the right kind of direction for blame but would presumably cost even more.

Might just be one of those things where you have to bear a bit of pain to keep the gain! And here the gain is that the HA are willing to give you the land if you pay the costs without making you fight too much or give it back - that is actually a pretty reasonable outcome.

Way more diplomatic than me. Well done

Biggles · 16 October 2016 at 9:16AM

Doozergirl wrote: »

I'm having trouble with the logic of expecting someone else to pay for you gaining a free piece of land. There's money saving and then there's taking the proverbial.

That's a bit unfair.

They bought it and paid for it. It was the builder that made the mistake; it's probably too late to expect them to rectify it but it might be worth trying to begin with.

It might depend how large the area of land is and just how much the cost is. As well as the effect it may (or may not) have on the resale price of your property in the future.

If 'adverse possession is applicable', I'm wondering if that means that you actually own it under the law? That is, can you sit back and tell the housing association to claim it from you (which they won't, of course)?

Is it worth asking for a meeting with the HA and trying to see if they are prepared to accept some kind of compromise?

Doozergirl · 16 October 2016 at 9:20AM

Biggles wrote: »

That's a bit unfair.

They bought it and paid for it. It was the builder that made the mistake; it's probably too late to expect them to rectify it but it might be worth trying to begin with.

It might depend how large the area of land is and just how much the cost is. As well as the effect it may (or may not) have on the resale price of your property in the future.

If 'adverse possession is applicable', I'm wondering if that means that you actually own it under the law? That is, can you sit back and tell the housing association to claim it from you (which they won't, of course)?

Is it worth asking for a meeting with the HA and trying to see if they are prepared to accept some kind of compromise?

Are you reading the same post as me? The housing association's suggesting of letting the OP formally have the land for free with no argument, but with the OP paying the fees is a perfect compromise! I wouldn't have hoped for a much better outcome.

Arguing adverse possession is more expensive for *everyone*, the costs unquantifiable and the outcome ultimately unknown. A transfer fee is set.

If your neighbour offered you part of their garden for free but with you paying for the transfer fee, would you accept that? Or would you seek a better 'compromise'?

I mean, the OP could always offer the land back that shouldn't have been theirs. I'm not suggesting they do it, but that's the other side of it. Being given the land but just paying the fee sounds totally fair.

Biggles · 16 October 2016 at 9:35AM

Doozergirl wrote: »

The housing association's suggesting of letting the OP formally have the land for free with no argument, but with the OP paying the fees is a perfect compromise!

That was why I was asking what the cost was likely to be, compared to the benefit. The way the OP was written implies that it may be quite significant, involving all their legal costs in raising and pursuing the issue, rather than just the transfer costs.

Doozergirl · 16 October 2016 at 9:50AM

Biggles wrote: »

That was why I was asking what the cost was likely to be, compared to the benefit. The way the OP was written implies that it may be quite significant, involving all their legal costs in raising and pursuing the issue, rather than just the transfer costs.

There are cases of boundary dispute costs stretching well into five figures over a matter of inches. As soon as you hit a courtroom, that's the upshot of it.

They could also both maintain the status quo and spend nothing, but if neither ever needs to sell then it's fine, but if the OP ever sells, the buyer will check the boundaries against the plan - it will come up regardless of the fact that the HA noticed when they purchased.

The OP is also legally obliged to declare that it has been highlighted to them that they are in possession of land that doesn't belong to them. Disputes legally need to be declared, as do any matters that might affect a buyer's offer - like land included in the sale that doesn't actually belong in the title or a potential legal battle with the neighbours.

Norman_Castle · 16 October 2016 at 9:59AM

OP. How much are the HA costs and how much is the land worth to you?

warby68 · 16 October 2016 at 10:02AM

So many reasons why the offer as put seems worth taking

- the boundary issue will come up in any future sale of either property and the parties involved at that time may not be so amenable
- it could become a dispute that affects saleability or value
- losing the land could devalue the property
- employing a solicitor to chase down the developer who then blames their solicitor who then blames your solicitor who then blames the developer again who then blames their contractor who then blames their surveyor who then blames the solicitor again who blames the fence erector who has long gone out of business!!!
- boundary disputes are costly and, in my reading, are not looked on kindly if the parties have been unreasonable, even the one who gets a judgement in their favour

shaun_from_Africa · 16 October 2016 at 10:06AM

Personally, I don't see that the OP should be liable for any costs incurred by the housing association.

The OP's solicitor has already provided the paperwork stating that they believe that they have the right of adverse possession to the land concerned and as the HA have only recently purchased the adjacent property, surely it is their conveyancing solicitor (or the legal dept of the council if they did the work) that should be liable for any costs as this should have been picked up and queried prior to the purchase being completed.

Doozergirl wrote: »

The OP is also legally obliged to declare that it has been highlighted to them that they are in possession of land that doesn't belong to them

As far as I'm aware, all the OP (or their solicitor) needs to do now is to submit an adverse possession registration form to the land registry along with the required fee and the affidavit from the solicitor and if this is accepted, the land will be registered to them and then if selling in the future, no declaration about a dispute needs to be made.

Boundary dispute - Land Registry Representative help please

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