Disputing a rejected car insurance claim (advice sought)
pobjoy
Posts: 4 Newbie
After two months of exasperating and costly (for me) delays, AXA appear to be on the verge of rejecting my car insurance claim. I was wondering if anyone who's been through a similar experience could suggest my next move or moves (I intend to dispute their conclusions).
The basic facts:
On the night of the very wet Dec 26 I was driving along a rural B road when I hit a deep (perhaps 30cm) road-wide pool of water. I was braking when I entered the water but still hit it faster than I wanted to. There was an instant loss of engine power which I assumed/hoped to be some temporary electrical issue. However, a couple of miles down the road the power loss was still there and the engine was starting to make a nasty rattling sound. Stupidly, I now realise, I chose to drive onto my destination about 5 miles away.
When I returned to the car (a 2004 diesel Peugeot 307 estate) on the morning of Dec 28 I was naively hoping that the engine would have dried out and things would be fine. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. The engine was still making a horrible noise, and there was a dashboard warning light illuminated. I called out the RAC. They arrived, listened to the engine, and diagnosed water ingestion - a probable write-off.
AXA were contacted and 11 days later (delay apparently caused by an AXA email failing to arrive at the receiving garage) finally got around to collecting the car. More delays followed (delays apparently caused by a receiving garage email failing to arrive at AXA) until, on Feb 20, I was called by an engineer to say that a full engine inspection had been conducted and no evidence of water damage could be found. The fault - a 'blown turbo' - was apparently 'just one of those things' and had nothing whatsoever to do with the dip in the water. Apparently, air filter and connected pipes showed no signs of water ingress.
Having consulted various mechanics who suggest that water ingress evidence may have dried-out or been erased by the post-incident drive, and, in effect, been accused of lying by an AXA engineer (on two separate occasions 'cobwebs in engine compartment' have been mentioned as suggestive that the car hasn't been involved in a flood incident. When I pointed out that the initial collection delay meant the car was sat on a grass verge next to a field hedge for 11 days prior to inspection - more than enough time for a cobweb to appear - I got no response) I'm left in the maddening position of knowing that the 'flood' caused the damage, but not being able to prove it.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do next? I've already decided to refuse any scrap value offer from AXA (I'd like to inspect the car myself, just in case AXA haven't been totally honest with me) and request copies of the various inspection reports (Do I have a right to see these?).
Any advice would be much appreciated.
The basic facts:
On the night of the very wet Dec 26 I was driving along a rural B road when I hit a deep (perhaps 30cm) road-wide pool of water. I was braking when I entered the water but still hit it faster than I wanted to. There was an instant loss of engine power which I assumed/hoped to be some temporary electrical issue. However, a couple of miles down the road the power loss was still there and the engine was starting to make a nasty rattling sound. Stupidly, I now realise, I chose to drive onto my destination about 5 miles away.
When I returned to the car (a 2004 diesel Peugeot 307 estate) on the morning of Dec 28 I was naively hoping that the engine would have dried out and things would be fine. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. The engine was still making a horrible noise, and there was a dashboard warning light illuminated. I called out the RAC. They arrived, listened to the engine, and diagnosed water ingestion - a probable write-off.
AXA were contacted and 11 days later (delay apparently caused by an AXA email failing to arrive at the receiving garage) finally got around to collecting the car. More delays followed (delays apparently caused by a receiving garage email failing to arrive at AXA) until, on Feb 20, I was called by an engineer to say that a full engine inspection had been conducted and no evidence of water damage could be found. The fault - a 'blown turbo' - was apparently 'just one of those things' and had nothing whatsoever to do with the dip in the water. Apparently, air filter and connected pipes showed no signs of water ingress.
Having consulted various mechanics who suggest that water ingress evidence may have dried-out or been erased by the post-incident drive, and, in effect, been accused of lying by an AXA engineer (on two separate occasions 'cobwebs in engine compartment' have been mentioned as suggestive that the car hasn't been involved in a flood incident. When I pointed out that the initial collection delay meant the car was sat on a grass verge next to a field hedge for 11 days prior to inspection - more than enough time for a cobweb to appear - I got no response) I'm left in the maddening position of knowing that the 'flood' caused the damage, but not being able to prove it.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do next? I've already decided to refuse any scrap value offer from AXA (I'd like to inspect the car myself, just in case AXA haven't been totally honest with me) and request copies of the various inspection reports (Do I have a right to see these?).
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Comments
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What makes you think Axa will give you its scrap value? They either deal with the claim or reject it.
If the "various mechanics" who have consulted with you have inspected the car, then get them to write reports on its condition (or if not, you need your own specialist report)
Then use the report(s) to dispute the insurance company engineer's findings using their complaints procedure and take things from their reply.
(You were too patient with them allowing your car to be left on the verge all that time - next time make some noise a lot sooner!)0 -
If they rejected your claim then they wont be paying anything never mind scrap value. Get it looked at properly and if its just the turbo then fit a new or used one.
If the garage strip it down and find the turbo is fine then supply that report to the insurance with a complaint.
Until the insurance pay out its still your car and maybe building up storage costs?Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...0 -
Thanks for the thoughts.
I don't have any reason to doubt AXA's 'blown turbo' assessment and, as it seems possible that any signs of water ingress were either erased by the post-incident drive or dried out by the delays, I don't have much confidence that a privately commissioned inspection would show up anything useful to me.
I could just replace the turbo at my own expense and forget about the whole thing, but that seems unjust. The bottom line is my car was damaged by flood water and the insurance company are refusing to accept that fact and implying I'm a liar into the bargain. Fighting for a fair settlement seems like the right thing to do.
>>(You were too patient with them allowing your car to be left on the verge all that time - next time make some noise a lot sooner!)
Noise was made! I phoned AXA on several occasions during the 11 days all to no avail. During the past two months I've badgered, pleaded and - ultimately - threatened AXA in an attempt to get things moving. Only mention of the ombudsman seemed to spur them into action.0 -
Can you get a written report from the RAC ?0
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Is it possible that the impact with the flood water damaged the turbo. Water ingress would normal stop the engine in very short order as the water would get into the cylinders through the air intake and wreck the valves/pistons almost immediately.
A blown turbo however would give you the same symptoms as you have described.0 -
When you make a claim, you have a responsibility to prove that a valid claim arises. If the insurers dispute this then the only way you can reasonably challenge is by commissioning your own report from a reputable mechanic to confirm that the sequence of events you've described could cause the damage. Ideally, it will also refute the insurers report.
If you take it through the complaints process and still have no joy, then you can escalate to the financial ombudsman who will weigh up the complaint based on the evidence from all sides - without a report confirming your version of events could be clear, they are unlikely to do anything.
As the RAC also diagnosed water ingestion, sheramber's reply above is a good idea - contact them to obtain a copy of the job sheet (or a letter confirming what the problem was). They should retain records of this.0 -
TSx, in your experience would the insurers, if proven wrong, pay for the engineers report?
OP, I agree that fighting for a fair settlement is the right thing to do but taking into account pre-accident value, scrap value, cost of report and amount of excess - you could be going through a lot of grief for little return.0 -
>>Can you get a written report from the RAC ?
I'll give it a go but I suspect it wouldn't be detailed enough to be of much use. Unfortunately their 'inspection' was pretty cursory. The man couldn't have been with me for longer than 10 minutes. He had a look under the bonnet, got me to run the engine, listened for a bit, then gave his opinion (Basically "Water ingestion. You're best off contacting your insurer. Being fairly old, your car will almost certainly be written off") then left. He didn't even give me the usual (?) receipt thing.
>>Is it possible that the impact with the flood water damaged the turbo.
As AXA's internal engine inspection apparently revealed no evidence whatsoever of water entering the cylinders or contacting the air filter, I can only assume that something along these lines is what happened. On Friday I heard from an independent mechanic commissioned by AXA to examine the car. He also found 'no evidence of water ingress' but when pressed said there was a theoretical possibility that cold water hitting the hot turbo casing might have caused a failure (he qualified this by saying such a failure was highly unlikely given the plastic 'splash guard' (sic) under the engine, and the position of the turbo in the engine bay).
>> When you make a claim, you have a responsibility to prove that a valid claim arises. If the insurers dispute this then the only way you can reasonably challenge is by commissioning your own report from a reputable mechanic to confirm that the sequence of events you've described could cause the damage. Ideally, it will also refute the insurers report.
Thanks. Put that way it does sound like an independent mechanic's report would be a sensible next step.0 -
How much would you expect as a payout for the car £800 to £1100?
Engineer's report would cost what £400?
It's a gamble whatever you do but good luck. Would be nice to see the insurance co shamed into doing the right thing.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
Do you get legal cover with the RAC?0 -
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