IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Gemini Parking Solutions - Help with appeal

2

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,634
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    edited 24 December 2017 at 4:58PM
    Who the heck of hecks made that diabolically WRONG decision? Which Assessor?

    Unbelievable. A keeper appellant can't be held liable with no NTK!

    You absolutely MUST complain to Mr Gallagher that this is a complete & utter failure of POPLA.
    That assessor should have all their appeals investigated and he/she should be fired.

    Sadly I agree. The decision is that bad, it beggars belief. Do not pay, POPLA have screwed this up.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Absolutely. This must be complained about. A keeper appellant cannot be held liable if no NtK has been received.
  • Thank you all so much for your advice and guidance. I will start the complaint to Mr Gallagher about procedural impropriety as advised and will keep you posted.
  • Just a question may be an important one. Does it make a difference if I am not the keeper or just the driver?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,432
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    pathris wrote: »
    Just a question may be an important one. Does it make a difference if I am not the keeper or just the driver?
    Are you saying here that Gemini know that you are the driver?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,634
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    pathris wrote: »
    Just a question may be an important one. Does it make a difference if I am not the keeper or just the driver?

    Yes it makes a difference - to make this complaint you must be the keeper, and have appealed throughout as keeper.

    Never mind who the driver was (as long as they were never identified). No mention of that party.

    That POPLA decision takes them back two years to a low point early in this service, where ISPA slapped them for doing exactly this! None of them understood the basics of the POFA, then they were re-trained at least so they all understood that a keeper can't be held liable without a NTK!

    This must be a new Assessor - or someone who has gone rogue - and this is just not OK from POPLA. Show us what you intend to send.

    I would mention ISPA in 2016 setting them right on this error, and how can Assessors possibly be making the mistake again of trying to say a keeper is liable without any NTK?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • pathris
    pathris Posts: 34
    First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    edited 27 December 2017 at 1:44PM
    Neither the driver nor the keeper was ever identified.I am the appellant...but, not the keeper and i have never disclosed what my position was.

    Although the appellant stated that it was her vehicle parked at the location, she never confirmed whether she is a registered keeper or the driver and no evidence of her being the registered keeper had been provided. I can confirm that the driver remains liable and once the Notice to Keeper is issued, the registered keeper will be given the opportunity to supply driver details so that we can contact them.

    I guess, I can't continue in this case unless I ask the keeper to appeal... Well, lesson learned. On the positive side, I know what to do next time. :-)

    Thank you all for your help and hope you have a wonderful new year ahead!
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Forumite
    The ppc made a mistake by accepting an appeal from someone apparently not involved at all. Sucks to be them. You still complain, as the appeal cannot be unsuccessful.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,634
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    pathris wrote: »
    Neither the driver nor the keeper was ever identified.I am the appellant...but, not the keeper and i have never disclosed what my position was.

    Although the appellant stated that it was her vehicle parked at the location, she never confirmed whether she is a registered keeper or the driver and no evidence of her being the registered keeper had been provided. I can confirm that the driver remains liable and once the Notice to Keeper is issued, the registered keeper will be given the opportunity to supply driver details so that we can contact them.

    I guess, I can't continue in this case unless I ask the keeper to appeal... Well, lesson learned. On the positive side, I know what to do next time. :-)

    Thank you all for your help and hope you have a wonderful new year ahead!

    Not at all. You are the keeper. A keeper doesn't have to be the registered keeper. You were perfectly entitled to appeal and you did, as keeper of 'your car'. POPLA has made a terrible mistake and you MUST complain to draw this to their attention.

    Do you not see that the decision is wrong? The worst one we've seen in recent years, IMHO.

    Surely you weren't planning on paying?! LOL NO!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • pathris
    pathris Posts: 34
    First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    edited 2 January 2018 at 9:11PM
    Thank you for the encouragement Coupon-mad. Of course, I am going to fight it and complain.
    Below is what I am planning to send. Any more details, pointers will be appreciated.

    Thank you for all your time you lovely, helpful folks!

    FORMAL COMPLAINT Procedural Impropriety
    REF: XXXXXXXXXXXX

    Dear Mr Gallagher,

    I recently appealed a Parking Charge Notice through the POPLA service, for which a misapplication of PoFA 2012 rules has resulted in an inappropriate refusal of my appeal.
    On 21st of December 2017, I received a decision by the assessor Jessica Lawton that my appeal was rejected. I would like to bring to your attention the following paragraph as per her response:
    “As it stands, the operator has not issued a Notice to Keeper due to an ongoing appeal for the PCN issued. I, therefore, cannot make a judgement or conclusion on it the Notice to Keeper is correct. However, having considered the requirements of PoFA 2012 (Schedule 4, Paragraph 7(2)), I am satisfied that the Notice to Driver issued on 9 October 2017 does meet these requirements outlined within this and that the operator is entitled to seek payment for the PCN from the driver”.

    There was never any admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As no Notice to Keeper has been served, (the deadline has now passed) there can be no possibility of the keeper being held liable for the charge either.
    Furthermore, the decision made by your assessor is not complaint with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which states:
    Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4 (Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle):
    5 (1)The first condition is that the creditor—
    (a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
    (b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.
    (2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.
    6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—
    (a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or
    (b)has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.
    (2)If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper must be given in accordance with paragraph 8.
    7(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.


    This is a matter of utmost importance to both myself and the integrity of POPLA as an Ombudsman Service. I expect a thorough investigation into this case and I would like you to look at it in details to ensure that the correct decision is given.
    Yours Sincerely,

    PS: Does anyone know Mr Gallagher's email address, or shall I just send this to the general complaints@popla.co.uk?
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.5K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.6K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.8K Life & Family
  • 247.4K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards