MSE News: Thousands of Santander mortgage holders could get payouts after blunder

edtheduck_2 · 18 August 2013 at 9:47PM

thanks - I take it I could use this even though I live in Northern Ireland? It seems to be only for England & Wales.

crusaderstyle · 20 August 2013 at 7:14PM

Well it's been a while since I've had something to add on this thread but I'm glad to see it's still being posted on. Good work guys!

To recap, I'd returned my questionnaire along with a long letter detailing my personal circumstances. The rejection letter I received was very generic making no reference to any points I'd raised, so I complained to Santander on the basis they hadn't issued a personal response to my individual circumstances which they'd advised in their 'affected but unaffected' letter.

It took longer than the 4 week timescale I was given but I was assured this was due to the "cap margin specialist team" wanting to make sure that each individual point I had raised was responded to.

I received my second rejection letter today and can say that I'm finding the whole process very frustrating. I did expect the response I got given the way Santander are handling this, but to have the response in front of me is a wind up!!

Basically they've just fleshed out their original balance of probabilities argument but it doesn't have a lot of substance. The majority of the main issues raised in my letter haven't been acknowledged at all ie. breach of contract, the ability to make well informed choices being affected by the lack of info and the subsequent choices I made.

The very vague reference given to a couple of more minor (but still consideration worthy!) points have been used totally out of context and have been manipulated in a way as to try and support their own arguments.:(

I have spoken to them since to advise I still don't think I've had a satisfactory response but they've said that's their full and final and that I will need to go to the FOS and have them make an impartial decision. Thankfully I already got this ball rolling and I got a letter today - very timely!, to say my case has been issued to an adjudicator. Looks like it won't be sorted out anytime this year as there is a 12 week timeline for a response from them.

The whole business has me fired up now, so I will be raising the "Power of Attorney" issue separately with Santander as a thank you for their treatment so far.

. It would good if a few of us did that - they'd need to get their answers together on that matter if they were inundated with requests. For anyone that's not had the opportunity to look into the POA yet, it's very interesting. "White rabbit trust" on Youtube has already been mentioned on here, but worth another. El Spaniardo really explains things clearly but I digress. That could be a whole new thread!

sking456 · 20 August 2013 at 11:33PM

Hi all,

Got acknowledgement from the FOS that they have accepted my complaint and will be in touch within 4 weeks after getting a formal response from Santander.
I phoned Santander to tell them I had received their final response letter and asked them to formally note on my account I have now sent a formal complaint to the FOS. Surprise,surprise 2 days later I receive a further letter from their complaints team (not the cap margin team) telling me they were going to investigate my complaint??? Thats after they sent me the week before the final regret letter.
Confused.com

Regards
Jason

suzandthecity · 21 August 2013 at 12:47PM

Have received my final rejection this morning.

"Banking bla bla bla.....I note that you stated that you would had paid the ERC to move had you been made aware of the cap margin increase in December 2008. However, in December 2008 the ERC payable would have been £1993.18, and at this time you had 4 months remaining on your fixed rate product at which point you would have been free to exit your mortgage without an ECR. Your payments were not affected until your fixed rate product ended on 3 April 2009, and therefore on balance of probabilities I do not believe you would have paid such a high fee to exit your mortgage in December 2008 as your payments were not affected.....bla bla bla"

No mention of lack of communication to allow us to make a truely informed decision based on facts which we consider were withheld , which financially disadvantaged us, breach of contract etc.

It's like knitting fog!

Any advice re my letter to the FOS would be greatly appreciated

welwynrose · 22 August 2013 at 11:40AM

Has anyone actually had any money back yet - I received the same letter as everyone else - I was honest in my answers saying I would have looked at changing but have stayed with them as my mortgage only had a few more years to run and as we have been looking at emigrating we didn't want to tie ourselves into another product that may have incurred leaving charges

joebob · 22 August 2013 at 3:28PM

Had my letter back in may ref no mo13 saying our mortgage was on svr linked product which was subject to an erc. We should have told you that you were entitled to exit this part of the mortgage without paying erc for a period of 3 months. After the cap margin increase between dec and march. Your payments were higher than they would have been had we not increased the cap margin. At
That time you may have been able to switch to another lender without paying an erc .
So after reading the threads on here I was a little bit confused on what to put on the questionaire, so I said we always looked to have a competitive mortgage that's why we took out a discounted rate and yes we probably would have looked at other mortgages if it meant saving money. I did not answer any of the questions as they all look as they could be misinterpreted.

Received a letter back today saying A member of my team will carry out an independent review in the hope we can reach an acceptable outcome. Once the review is complete we will provide details of our investigation and the proposed outcome if you remain unhappy you are entitled to go to the FOS

Is this a bog standard reply everyone's had.

Will keep you posted.

edtheduck_2 · 22 August 2013 at 7:45PM

Two_steps_forward... wrote: »

Edtheduck,

I think the question is, could you have secured a better deal in the mortgage market in November/December 2008 than the one you got in April 2009? I think the answer has to be yes, but somehow you have to find a deal which was relevant to you. An earlier post had some figures if you look back, I will look later too.

Basically, I think make a total of mortgage payments since November 2008 for each individual year, work out what you would have paid on a better deal, also for each year, then take one from the other. Multiply the result by 8% simple interest, multiply by the number of years and you have the figure...

Two steps, or anyone who can help for that matter, I've just tried to a calculation and am unsure what figures to use as I seem to have got quite a large end figure. Can you advise based on what you've said above.

On our Dec statement balance was £80k
rate we were on as per letter received in Nov 08 was 4.59%, to take effect Dec., I presume
ERC charge on Dec statement says £2600 and it applies until mid-April 09 when the 2 year tie-in ended
would I calculate using the lifetime tracker rate that someone's relative has of 0.5% above base rate i.e 1%
where does the 8 % come in

how many months do I multiply stuff by?
I mean we had 23yrs 5 mths term (281 months) remaining, and tie-in was until April 09.
Do I multiply monthly difference of 281 months of £80k at 1% and 4.59% by 281 mths or is it just pertinent to the end of tie-in. You say only count no. of payments I made since November....?

edit, just done some more calcs, does this seem right:

In march april 09 best we could secure (and indeed are still on)was 2.74% above base rate lifetime tracker with Woolwich.

If we’d been able to leave in Nov/Dec , if theyd told us, we could have secured the Woolwich 0.5% above BR lifetime tracker

The difference of 2.24% on £80k over 281 months. We missed out on securing this

That is £1792 approx extra per year (£149.33/mth) for 23 years 5 mths = £41962.67

Can you help please? Thanks

ceegee · 29 August 2013 at 3:01PM

joebob wrote: »

Had my letter back in may ref no mo13 saying our mortgage was on svr linked product which was subject to an erc. We should have told you that you were entitled to exit this part of the mortgage without paying erc for a period of 3 months. After the cap margin increase between dec and march. Your payments were higher than they would have been had we not increased the cap margin. At
That time you may have been able to switch to another lender without paying an erc .
So after reading the threads on here I was a little bit confused on what to put on the questionaire, so I said we always looked to have a competitive mortgage that's why we took out a discounted rate and yes we probably would have looked at other mortgages if it meant saving money. I did not answer any of the questions as they all look as they could be misinterpreted.

Received a letter back today saying A member of my team will carry out an independent review in the hope we can reach an acceptable outcome. Once the review is complete we will provide details of our investigation and the proposed outcome if you remain unhappy you are entitled to go to the FOS

Is this a bog standard reply everyone's had.

Will keep you posted.

Yes, exactly the same as me. Mo13, same acknowledgement letter.

I predict that, no matter what you put on the questionnaire, you will be told "tough". They won't actually write "tough" in the letter; it'll be a page or two of stuff that you can barely get your head around. How do I know this? Because that is what happened to me, despite them saying that you/I could have got a better rate elsewhere, despite me saying on the questionnaire that, had I known they were overcharging me by 1.25% I would have asked them to reduce the rate to what it should have been had they not increased the cap margin.

I really don't know what the point was in them even writing to anyone at all. Some regulatory authority told them to, but they are determined to get away without repaying what they overcharged.

I am so angry about it that I have not yet calmed down enough to take it further. They have told me how to get in touch with the Financial Ombudsman.

Quite frankly, I accepted the rate at the time, but now, years later, that they have told me I was paying more than I would have done, had they not increased the Cap Margin, well, I blasted well want reimbursing the overpayments.

We have 6 months from receiving Santander's final decision to get in touch with the Ombudsman. Just as well.......it'll take me some time to cool down!

ceegee · 29 August 2013 at 3:18PM

Two_steps_forward... wrote: »

Our complaint is now with FOS. I believe they are saying 12 weeks to deal with cases...

I am in two minds, Two steps (:D) about whether to give Santander one more chance or to do as they say and now take it to the Ombudsman....dither, dither

.

Giving them one more chance would just delay things though, although I feel that another of their mind-blowing refusal letters might enable the Ombudsman to see how obstructive (?) they are being.

I am sure that they are not going with the spirit of what they were told to do by the FCA (or whoever it was) in the first place. Although, haven't the old financial regulatory bodies been disbanded now? If so, how very convenient for Santander.

Here is a pertinent point for me, in that on the questionnaire I said that had I known they were overcharging me I would have asked for a discount......

.....they replied that when they advised me of the ending of my discounted rate, they invited me to get in touch to discuss my mortgage. Well, the only "invitations" I remember from their letters was the bog standard bit about getting in touch with them if you were in difficulties. Which I wasn't, so I didn't!

I know the new rate I was on wasn't the best, but I took it on as I was fairly near the end of the mortgage and was on a low wage and knew I wouldn't get a mortgage anywhere else, due to my low pay.

What to do now?

almond · 29 August 2013 at 7:08PM

look forward to any help, I am sorry not been around much but back on track now and ready to take up the fight again

MSE News: Thousands of Santander mortgage holders could get payouts after blunder

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