MSE News: Old £1 coins stop being legal tender this week

Hundreds of shops will continue to accept old round £1 coins after they stop being legal tender this Sunday....
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'Old £1 coins stop being legal tender this week - but some shops WILL still take them'
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  • JuicyJesus
    JuicyJesus Posts: 3,825
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    Legal tender means nothing for shops anyway. A shop can take (or not take) whatever currency it feels like, including £1 coins. Legal tender is only relevant for debts (including things like ordering food in restaurants, where they can insist that you pay them only in legal tender). The Royal Mint can't make shops not take old pound coins any more than they can stop shops taking debit cards, and banks will still accept them probably forever.

    The whole concept is something that everyone seems to be confused about and articles like this one don't help. My Amex card isn't legal tender but most shops seem happy enough with it. The old pound coins won't be but shops can still take them. In Scotland plenty of people carry around banknotes that aren't legal tender and spend them happily as they see fit.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
  • JuicyJesus wrote: »
    Legal tender means nothing for shops anyway. A shop can take (or not take) whatever currency it feels like, including £1 coins. Legal tender is only relevant for debts (including things like ordering food in restaurants, where they can insist that you pay them only in legal tender). The Royal Mint can't make shops not take old pound coins any more than they can stop shops taking debit cards, and banks will still accept them probably forever.

    The whole concept is something that everyone seems to be confused about and articles like this one don't help. My Amex card isn't legal tender but most shops seem happy enough with it. The old pound coins won't be but shops can still take them. In Scotland plenty of people carry around banknotes that aren't legal tender and spend them happily as they see fit.

    Hi Juicy Jesus, I made this clear in the article - "This is because although 'legal tender' is a widely quoted term, when it comes to what can or can't be used to pay for things, it has little practical use. It's actually a phrase used to describe the means of payment which has to be accepted to settle a debt - so if you're in debt to someone, you can't be sued for non-payment if you offer full payment in 'legal tender'."
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  • VfM4meplse
    VfM4meplse Posts: 34,269
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    May I direct you to exhibit A for further debate.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy :D...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...I love chaz-ing!
  • chattychappy
    chattychappy Posts: 7,302 Forumite
    Where there is some confusion is that with banknotes, the BoE will always pay out on them. So the old £5 notes will always be worth £5 and the BoE will always exchange them. Because of this, other insitutions (including shops) can go on accepting them in the confidence that ultimately they can get full value for them.

    As I understand it, there is no equivalent promise with coins - willing to stand corrected though.
  • Caddyman
    Caddyman Posts: 342
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    Personally, I long for a cashlesss society. To be honest, I've had enough of carrying either coinage or paper money. At every opportunity, I pay by debit card anyway. I realise my dream of there being no coinage is just that, a dream, but some of the coinage we have seems pretty pointless anyway, such as 1 penny, 2 penny and 5 pence pieces. All over the Country, people have jars stuffed full of coins, hoarding them like they've gone out of fashion and so the Mint keeps chucking out more. Hoarding coins at home seems pretty pointless anyway, it's not like they're even earning any interest....not that they'd earn much interest in a bank either!

    As for the old one pound coin, well the public were informed in March 2014 about the new coin coming into circulation in 2017 and the new 12 sided coin was legal tender from 28 March this year, so to be honest, there's no excuse for people to be hanging on to old pound coins, real, fake or otherwise. And of course, at least 3 percent of the total old one pound coins in circulation were fake anyway. I wonder just how many 'piggy bank' savers at home have a number of 'lead' one pound coins in their stash? One thing's for sure, I bet lots of people have had their hands stuffed down the backs of sofas looking for them! Cars are another favourite, jammed in seat rails etc.

    At any rate, the public have had fair warning as have retailers. What amazes me is the fact that there are now lots of car parks with seemingly totally redundant parking meter machines, my local supermarket being one of them. Every single machine is covered over because they are unable to take the new one pound coin. Same with some local Councils. They've had plenty of time to sort this out, but once again, it's not their fault is it?........
  • Caddyman wrote: »
    As for the old one pound coin, well the public were informed in March 2014 about the new coin coming into circulation in 2017 and the new 12 sided coin was legal tender from 28 March this year, so to be honest, there's no excuse for people to be hanging on to old pound coins,

    I kinda agree, but I think the issue is that they are not going back to the banks. I was given two round pounds in my change yesterday. I'm not haning onto them, I'm simply still receiving them.
    Caddyman wrote: »
    Personally, I long for a cashlesss society.

    No doubt the tax man does too, and as a compliant bloke I suppose I should be longing too. I'm using cash less since contactless came along. But I am uncomfortable about everything I do in my life becoming a piece of data that can be passed around.

    The black/cash economy is booming, at least in south London. Tax avoidance on a massive scale (and claiming benefits at the same time). Add to that newly arrived individuals (whether legal or not) who simply can not, or choose not to access banking facilities. It will be a long time before cash disappears unless the government makes a big push. I'm guessing that's why despite plenty of warning there are still round pounds circulating. A friend of mine was given an old fiver last week in her change. I think the government has underestimated the amount of cash that gets passed around without going through the banks.

    (FWIW a local Tesco Express accepted a Duke of Wellington fiver a few weeks ago. That disappeared in 1991, but of course is still good for £5. The staff member, who I vaguely know, got told off by the manager. I offered him a new £5 for it if it would help. He told the manager who then decided to tear up and bin the old note rather than face any further "trouble"....)
  • System
    System Posts: 178,076
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    Caddyman wrote: »

    As for the old one pound coin, well the public were informed in March 2014 about the new coin coming into circulation in 2017 and the new 12 sided coin was legal tender from 28 March this year, so to be honest, there's no excuse for people to be hanging on to old pound coins, real, fake or otherwise. And of course, at least 3 percent of the total old one pound coins in circulation were fake anyway.
    Back in 2014, Royal Mint knew that the new £1 would be in circulation by 2017. Explain why since then, they have minted an extra 250m coins? They should have halted minting of the round coin in 2014. Got the figures from wikipeida
    Caddyman wrote: »
    At any rate, the public have had fair warning as have retailers. What amazes me is the fact that there are now lots of car parks with seemingly totally redundant parking meter machines, my local supermarket being one of them. Every single machine is covered over because they are unable to take the new one pound coin. Same with some local Councils. They've had plenty of time to sort this out, but once again, it's not their fault is it?........

    [
    Myself and others have benefited from the councils' inability to change the machines. One neighbouring council put black bags over the pay n display machines with a note on them, until further notice car parking is free as machines unable to accept new £1 coins, A friend who lives there said it was like this for almost 2 months. How much money has the council lost and any increases to council tax, will be of course be blamed on the 2 months of free car parking.[/quote]
  • Caddyman
    Caddyman Posts: 342
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    I kinda agree, but I think the issue is that they are not going back to the banks. I was given two round pounds in my change yesterday. I'm not haning onto them, I'm simply still receiving them.

    No doubt the tax man does too, and as a compliant bloke I suppose I should be longing too. I'm using cash less since contactless came along. But I am uncomfortable about everything I do in my life becoming a piece of data that can be passed around.

    The black/cash economy is booming, at least in south London. Tax avoidance on a massive scale (and claiming benefits at the same time). Add to that newly arrived individuals (whether legal or not) who simply can not, or choose not to access banking facilities. It will be a long time before cash disappears unless the government makes a big push. I'm guessing that's why despite plenty of warning there are still round pounds circulating. A friend of mine was given an old fiver last week in her change. I think the government has underestimated the amount of cash that gets passed around without going through the banks.

    (FWIW a local Tesco Express accepted a Duke of Wellington fiver a few weeks ago. That disappeared in 1991, but of course is still good for £5. The staff member, who I vaguely know, got told off by the manager. I offered him a new £5 for it if it would help. He told the manager who then decided to tear up and bin the old note rather than face any further "trouble"....)

    One way the Government could seriously hamper those hanging on to undeclared cash, is to announce without warning that any former currency notes and coinage held, will no longer be accepted legal tender by the BoE, thereby immediately rendering all such currency illegal and worthless. I believe the Indian Government did this recently, albeit I believe they gave people a short amount of time to exchange the Rupee notes that were withdrawn. It caused widespread worldwide chaos for those holding onto undeclared cash, especially those nationals resident abroad, which was the sole reason the Indian Government did it, to stamp out currency forgery, tax evasion and corruption.

    At the end of the day, the Government give the public more than adequate warning of currency supercession. If individuals are too bone idle to exchange what they're hanging onto, or are hanging onto cash that they've acquired through dubious means, then they deserve to lose undeclared cash. Harsh? I don't think so.

    Concerning your recounting of the old Duke of Wellington fiver, that really shouldn't happen these days. Someone thinking they're being clever by walking into a shop with out of date currency, is clearly either a bit silly, or they were a tourist to the country having brought cash with them they've had for years. At the end of the day, the person accepting the old fiver in the first instance was equally at fault for accepting it, but perhaps inexperience/age accounted for their naivety? As for the shop manager ripping it up and throwing it away, rather strange if you ask me, especially when it could easily be exchanged at any High Street Bank, providing it was indeed a real fiver, and let's face it, probably only those of us that used to use them would have an idea of whether it was or not. I do miss that old fiver!

    From another forum member's post, I too don't understand after confirming the introduction of a new one pound coin, why the Royal Mint would continue to keep minting old one pound coins in their hundreds of thousands. Perhaps sufficient amounts of one pound coins just 'go missing' or indeed quite literally, hundreds upon thousands just get thrown into piggy banks at home until swapped at the bank, thus causing a real time shortage of coinage. That being said, I've sat on enough coaches abroad and often seen one pound coins thrown into the driver's tips basket! Maybe they were fake lead ones!

    As with chattychappy, only yesterday, a local shop attempted to pass off to me a round one pound coin in my change. I however politely refused the coin and insisted he give me a new one pound coin, which I'm perfectly entitled to do. He made it perfectly clear he wasn't happy, but eventually complied with my request. Retailers know the old pound coin is being withdrawn next week and by continuing to pass them off in change so close to withdrawal because they can't be bothered to get their own house in order is poor in my view. They've had months to gear up for this, but I see from news reports that some major retailers are still handing out the round pound in change with just days to go. My contactless debit card will be getting a drubbing over the next few days!
  • Caddyman wrote: »
    As with chattychappy, only yesterday, a local shop attempted to pass off to me a round one pound coin in my change. I however politely refused the coin and insisted he give me a new one pound coin, which I'm perfectly entitled to do.

    Not really sure you were entitled to refuse the old pound coin. If they owed you a pound and it's still legal tender, then I can't see how you can refuse. I suppose if you've not taken the product and the deal hasn't been concluded then you are entitled to refuse the round pound in the change and they can refuse to sell you the goods.

    As of yesterday, East Croydon Station machines still accept the old ones (even though not legal tender) but do not accept the "new" ones!
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    ‘Legal tender’ is a term that people often use, but when it comes to what can or can’t be used to pay for things, it has little practical use.

    So says the Bank of England
    http://edu.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender/

    Oddly enough, Bank of England notes are not legal tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and neither are the banknotes issued by Scottish or NI bank. Somehow they manage.:)
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