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ECP Appeal Rejected after following MSE Advice

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  • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of Posts: 199 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Never mind, it was just another one for the pile. They can't overturn decisions. Keep the pressure on POPLA when you get that 'whilst we understand your disappointment' reply from the 'POPLA Team' who reckon their Assessor did no wrong.

    Yes C-M and thanks for all your support - just couldnt have got this far without your help and the other regulars. Ill let you know how the POPLA complaint goes - hopefully not with a "whilst we understand your dispappointment" guff of a response ....:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
  • Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren123 Posts: 2,504 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Is POPLA subject to the Freedom of Information Act?
    If it is, make a FOI request for information:
    1. How many successful appeals have there been citing landowner authority in relation to that site over the last 24 months;
    2. How many unsuccessful appeals have there been citing landowner authority in relation to that site over the last 24 months;
    3. How many complaints has POPLA received in relation to their decisions in relation to the site over the last 24 months;
    Add anything else you can think of.
    Organisations hate requests like this.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,195 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »
    Is POPLA subject to the Freedom of Information Act?
    If it is, make a FOI request for information:
    1. How many successful appeals have there been citing landowner authority in relation to that site over the last 24 months;
    2. How many unsuccessful appeals have there been citing landowner authority in relation to that site over the last 24 months;
    3. How many complaints has POPLA received in relation to their decisions in relation to the site over the last 24 months;
    Add anything else you can think of.
    Organisations hate requests like this.
    POPLA is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act.
  • Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren123 Posts: 2,504 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Thank you Castle. That's a shame. An organisation like that really should be accountable by being subject to the FOI.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,195 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »
    Thank you Castle. That's a shame. An organisation like that really should be accountable by being subject to the FOI.
    Well there used to be the ISPA which was supposed to provide oversight of POPLA, but the BPA have closed them down as from 31st March.
  • Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren123 Posts: 2,504 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Well we all know the whole industry is a shower. One would hope that with some lobbying they'd make POPLA subject to the FOI now the ISPA is gone, but we all know that the government will always have bigger priorities.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of Posts: 199 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »
    Well we all know the whole industry is a shower. One would hope that with some lobbying they'd make POPLA subject to the FOI now the ISPA is gone, but we all know that the government will always have bigger priorities.

    Thanks Castle and Loadsof .... I still feel like not giving up - I did send an appeal to ISPA but they wrote to me last night to say that they unfortunately cant accept any new complaints due to wind down etc..

    I will of course, post when I see what our friends at POPLA come back with post my secondary complaint ... the whole thing is a farce:mad:
  • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of Posts: 199 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Dear Parking Ticket Forum Regulars....

    I got a response to my complaint to Mr Gallagher today .... are you ready for this ???

    [FONT=&quot]Dear Miss XXX

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I have been asked to look into your recent email on behalf of Mr John Gallagher.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Having looked at your email, I note that you dispute the decision made by our assessor and have requested that we review this with a view to changing it.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Please note POPLA is a one-stage process and our policy is that we should not change a decision because either party disputes the assessor’s decision. The only situation in which we may reconsider an appeal is if there has been a procedural error - for example – if we failed to allow a motorist to comment on an operator’s evidence pack.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Within your letter dated 13 March 2017, you have stated that you feel our assessor made a procedural error, as you do not believe Euro Car Parks has authority to form contracts with the drivers of this particular car park.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Furthermore, I note that you have stated that you can provide references for other decisions POPLA has made regarding this point.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]In relation to this, I would firstly advise that POPLA makes decisions on a case-by-case basis. As such, while I appreciate your offer to provide case references, that will not be necessary.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]In terms of the decision itself, I note the assessor has correctly identified that within your initial grounds of appeal, you questioned if Euro Car Parks had the appropriate authority to operate on the land in question.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]In order to decide on this point, the assessor has referenced Section 7 of the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice before stating as follows:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]“The operator has provided a copy of the landowner contract. I have reviewed this and I am satisfied that it complies with the BPA Code of Practice and the operator had authority to act on the land on the day in question.”[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Therefore, it is clear that the assessor has not made a procedural error in relation to this aspect of your appeal. The assessor has considered the evidence provided before reaching his decision. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]In addition to this point, you have also stated that you do not feel our assessor has considered your appeal or rebuttal properly.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]As such, I have looked at the issues raised within your initial appeal and rebuttal and note that they are as follows:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact liable for the charge.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Euro Car Parks have no standing or authority to form contracts with drivers in this particular car park, nor to pursue charges[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The ANPR system is Unreliable and Neither Synchronized nor Accurate [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Incorrect use of Fairlie vs Fenton 1870[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lack of signage - unclear signage – no contract with driver - no adequate notice of the charge, maximum stay nor grace period.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Unfair terms of contract[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]7. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Charge is Punitive[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Having considered the above, I note that our assessor has referenced each ground of appeal within the “assessor summary of appellant case” field. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Furthermore, I note within the “assessor summary of reasons” field, the assessor has addressed each of the above. As advised above, POPLA is a one-stage process and we would only look to change a decision if a procedural error has occurred.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]While I note you disagree with the conclusions reached by our assessor, it is clear that no procedural error has taken place in relation to your appeal and because of this, we would not look to change the decision. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Kind Regards,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Greg Byron[/FONT]
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,345 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    edited 20 March 2017 at 9:24PM
    Should ECP proceed to court, who would appear on behalf of POPLA to put the points they have made to the Judge when you join them in your case?

    Ask them to forward contact details of the POPLA representative who will appear in the county court (hopefully you're miles away from Warrington, if so, state your nearest CC) - would that be Greg Byron, the actual POPLA Assessor who made the adjudication or John Gallagher himself? A bit of bluff, but as your request for a reassessment fell on stony ground, no harm in ruffling a few of their feathers with a tricky question to put them on the spot.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of Posts: 199 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Umkomaas wrote: »
    Should ECP proceed to court, who would appear on behalf of POPLA to put the points they gave made to the Judge.

    Ask them to forward contact details of the POPLA representative - would that be Greg Byron, the actual POPLA Assessor who made the adjudication or John Gallagher? A bit of bluff, but as your request for a reassessment fell on stony ground, no harm in ruffling a few of their feathers with a tricky question to put them on the spot.

    Thanks Umkomaas - I will do so. It reads as if it was Greg Byron that made the decision. Bring it on !!!! :j
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