Calling time on PIP

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  • NeilCr
    NeilCr Posts: 4,430
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    edited 18 March 2017 at 7:56PM
    Alice_Holt wrote: »
    One of the many puzzling aspects of rockingbiily's story is that the jobcentre helped him complete his PIP form. I haven't come across staff in a job centres who would offer to do this. I would be interested to hear from any current / former JC employees who could comment on this.
    The DWP did have Financial Assessment & Benefits (FAB) Visiting Officers who would help with claiming benefits (mainly pension credit). A FAB officer would be trained write the form accurately, whereas a JC employee would not necessarily know the PIP criteria.

    There is no suggestion either on the gov uk site or other government publications that you are able to trot down to your nearest JC with the PIP2 form -
    https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-to-claim , and
    " Information about how to complete the form will be included and is also available online.
    Claimants may ask someone, such as a family member or a support organisation to help them complete the form. The PIP toolkit contains information to help support organisations help claimants."

    A PIP form would take a minimum of 2 hours to complete to a reasonable standard. I can't see an JC employee taking 2 hours out of a day filled with meetings with job seekers to complete a PIP form for a 67 year old.

    I'm also puzzled by why a 67 year old not claiming JSA or UC would be in a JC to begin with.


    There is an obvious disconnect between a prolific and articulate poster capable of answering / refuting other posters arguments, and his many and various statements that he couldn't understand the PIP2 form / didn't read it / didn't realise it was incorrect / too busy thinking about which £50k vehicle to buy next for his wife / was affected by medication / had been abducted by aliens / it was everyone else's fault / couldn't find a pen, etc, etc.

    Brilliant post Alice

    The only thing I could think of was that the JCP were being helpful because Rockingbilly had whined about having no-one to help and they designated someone as a scribe (not someone who had experience/training in completing PIP forms). I have heard of this - whether it is just an urban rumour who is to say

    Oh - and be prepared for Rockingbilly to say he has no idea how it happened. It just did - and it's not in any way at all his fault!
  • Muttleythefrog
    Muttleythefrog Posts: 19,728
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    NeilCr wrote: »
    Brilliant post Alice

    The only think I could think of was that the JCP were being helpful because Rockingbilly had whined about having no-one to help and they designated someone as a scribe (not someone who had experience/training in completing PIP forms). I have heard of this - whether it is just an urban rumour who is to say
    If it isn't a rumour then one day Crimewatch UK is going to have a bizarre episode on distraction thefts by a conman masquerading as helping disabled people get their entitlements while an accomplice helps themselves to a mobility scooter. "This unsophisticated crime has left disabled people having to convince the DWP they're not a natural replacement for Lionel Messi"
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
  • NeilCr wrote: »
    He hasn't got long Muttley. He's already two weeks in and he has got his AA application submitted. Unfortunately, his usual prevaricating has likely stymied any chance of getting help which he clearly needs

    I am pretty much inclined to the view that whatever is said on the MR will make little difference. He scored zero points and unless there is something on the PIP2 form which points to serious issues the fact that he signed the form having taken it home won't help

    And, of course, if he then puts in a coherent and cogent MR it would go against the "I didn't understand the form it's all the nasty DWP man's fault" argument

    I'd tend to the view that he does (depending on whether he has changed his mind again about giving up on PIP) an MR along the lines of what you have said and then seek advice on the appeal

    No, I am going for it. I know that I am entitled to some level of PIP even going by the points not given for those sections that are completely false.
    It just shows that having someone help you may not be the best thing to do. Every time I have asked for help in the past, they did a far better job of explaining my problems than I could have done and because of that I was awarded DLA twice.
    It has been a let down to find that this time, I have been shafted.
    Without quoting chapter and verse. I have one report dated 2014 when tested for Dementia that clearly states that I have great difficulties in coping and understanding new information, and sequencing as well as showing a noticeable loss of functional & analytical skills.. I have memory loss which is confirmed with a diagnosis of Dementia caused either by vascular problems (most likely) or alcoholism (unlikely) which is being treated.
    I am not going to improve. Yet the assessor dismissed all of that evidence.
  • On the PIP2 " It says that I don't have any problems with taking medication."
    If it says that then yes you need to disagree with it and explain the reality as you did above. (It is impossible from here to determine how your engagement with the jobcentre employee landed up with a false statement like this).There's no simple way to address a completely false statement that you have given barring saying something must've been lost in translation between you and the person who completed it for you and you lacked time and health to review it. You have dug your hole... only you can dig out of it.. but you must appreciate that helping someone who has sent a signed 'application form' that is false is somewhat of a difficult challenge to overcome... rather like stepping in to defend someone facing a potential murder charge after they've been interviewed by police where they gave a full admission and handed them the murder weapon. You're left to argue that they were not of sound mind when they made the admission or committed the crime. Perhaps blame your medication.
    OK, I agree it does sound ridiculous. But you have to understand that I takes things in a literal way (as in the walking explanation)
    Looking at the form question 5(a). I was asked if I needed an aid or appliance to take my medication - I replied NO my wife looks after that for me, should I have mentioned that I have equipment that measures my blood sugar level in order to calculate the correct level and type of insulin needed?
    5(b) I was asked if there was someone that was responsible for medicating me - NO. should I have explained that my wife has to remind, supervise, and control what drugs I need and when? Should I have said that she has to set up the injections for me as she doesn't trust me enough to do it the right way and in the right place in my body?
    5(c) simply says that I am able to medicate myself.


    The so-called expert that helped you probably was not expert at all. In the end the expert in this case is almost certainly you. It sounds like historically you have been getting lucky with the assistance you have had.. this perhaps lulled you into the false belief others could always successfully do your claims for you. Such a false belief you didn't even have the need to check their efforts before signing your name to agree with them.
    That's absolutely true. The twice that I have asked for help and received it resulted in no issues and an award that fitted in with the explanations given The first was a Welfare Rights Officer from the County Council brought on board by I think my Social Worker and the second was a qualified lady at the CAB. I never checked those two applications so just assumed that the third one would be the same.

    I don't know what difficulties the new AA application presents to pursuing this PIP claim... but if it all goes t*ts up just plead insanity and say that recently you thought you were a woman called Shirley, that Daleks were running the local takeaway and that your mobility scooter got sucked up by a spaceship when you were eating spaghetti hoops. That'd be my expert advice... it should keep you out of conventional jail.
    I like that excuse. But I doubt that I could keep a straight face if I told them.
  • poppy12345
    poppy12345 Posts: 17,852
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    No, I am going for it. I know that I am entitled to some level of PIP even going by the points not given for those sections that are completely false.
    It just shows that having someone help you may not be the best thing to do. Every time I have asked for help in the past, they did a far better job of explaining my problems than I could have done and because of that I was awarded DLA twice.
    It has been a let down to find that this time, I have been shafted.
    Without quoting chapter and verse. I have one report dated 2014 when tested for Dementia that clearly states that I have great difficulties in coping and understanding new information, and sequencing as well as showing a noticeable loss of functional & analytical skills.. I have memory loss which is confirmed with a diagnosis of Dementia caused either by vascular problems (most likely) or alcoholism (unlikely) which is being treated.
    I am not going to improve. Yet the assessor dismissed all of that evidence.
    You completely confuse me. First you apply for PIP and get refused. Then you decide to go for the MR, after which you again decide no you've had enough and you're quiting. Then you ask about AA, so you then fill out a form gather some evidence and send the form off to DWP. So which is it going to be AA or go for the MR on PIP? Surely the AA application will cross out the PIP MR? i mean seriously make up your mind what it is you're doing!!

    So many people have adviced you and all you seem to do is twist everything and lie. One time i'm reading you don't and never had a mobility scooter, then i find myself seeing that you " couldn't fit it in your car" I've never known so many lies being told to be fair. If you have trouble convincing everyone here how on earth are you expected to get an award? Then again it wouldn't really matter because the only reason you're going for this is to give all your disability money away to your children....
  • Alice_Holt wrote: »
    One of the many puzzling aspects of rockingbiily's story is that the jobcentre helped him complete his PIP form. I haven't come across staff in a job centres who would offer to do this. I would be interested to hear from any current / former JC employees who could comment on this.
    The DWP did have Financial Assessment & Benefits (FAB) Visiting Officers who would help with claiming benefits (mainly pension credit). A FAB officer would be trained write the form accurately, whereas a JC employee would not necessarily know the PIP criteria.

    There is no suggestion either on the gov uk site or other government publications that you are able to trot down to your nearest JC with the PIP2 form -
    https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-to-claim , and
    " Information about how to complete the form will be included and is also available online.
    Claimants may ask someone, such as a family member or a support organisation to help them complete the form. The PIP toolkit contains information to help support organisations help claimants."

    A PIP form would take a minimum of 2 hours to complete to a reasonable standard. I can't see an JC employee taking 2 hours out of a day filled with meetings with job seekers to complete a PIP form for a 67 year old.

    I'm also puzzled by why a 67 year old not claiming JSA or UC would be in a JC to begin with.


    There is an obvious disconnect between a prolific and articulate poster capable of answering / refuting other posters arguments, and his many and various statements that he couldn't understand the PIP2 form / didn't read it / didn't realise it was incorrect / too busy thinking about which £50k vehicle to buy next for his wife / was affected by medication / had been abducted by aliens / it was everyone else's fault / couldn't find a pen, etc, etc.
    OK you need to know a bit more of how the events unfolded.
    It goes back to when I was forced to telephone to start the PIP off back in early January. I answered many questions and it eventually came to a question about if I was suffering from any of the following: Then she read out a list and I said which ones applied to me. At the end of the phone call she said something about could I fill out the PIP2 form that I will get. I said it's doubtful, did I know anybody that could help me - No, would I be able to see someone from a welfare rights organisation - no idea I haven't asked. Then she said that someone would be in touch with me to go through the PIP2 form at a later date OK I suppose

    That was it, I then received the PIP2 form and you know what happened next about not getting an appointment until the 17th February with Welfare Rights. The time for getting the form back was extended by one week from the 5th Feb to the 12th Feb, still 5 days short.
    Anyhow on the Friday.27th Jan I had a call from the Jobcentre to offer help to fill out the PIP2. Could I get down to the JC in town on Mon 30th Jan. I got there and for no more than an hour he asked questions and I gave him answers. I have no idea who or what he was but he did have a security card round his neck.
    I then went home and started to dig out some evidence which took me over a week to get it together. Stacks of letters from the hospital, DWP etc over a 6 year period!
    On the 9th Feb I sent it all off to the DWP and received confirmation that it was delivered the following morning.
  • rockingbilly
    rockingbilly Posts: 853 Forumite
    edited 19 March 2017 at 12:23AM
    poppy12345 wrote: »
    You completely confuse me. First you apply for PIP and get refused. Then you decide to go for the MR, after which you again decide no you've had enough and you're quiting. Then you ask about AA, so you then fill out a form gather some evidence and send the form off to DWP. So which is it going to be AA or go for the MR on PIP? Surely the AA application will cross out the PIP MR? i mean seriously make up your mind what it is you're doing!!

    So many people have adviced you and all you seem to do is twist everything and lie. One time i'm reading you don't and never had a mobility scooter, then i find myself seeing that you " couldn't fit it in your car" I've never known so many lies being told to be fair. If you have trouble convincing everyone here how on earth are you expected to get an award? Then again it wouldn't really matter because the only reason you're going for this is to give all your disability money away to your children....
    I have decided to do a MR for the PIP claim. What the DWP do with the AA claim is up to them. I don't particularly care.
    I have NOT told any lies. I find it extremely difficult explaining everything in detail so I just give bits out. Repeat - I HAVE NEVER OWNED A MOBILITY SCOOTER!! I was THINKING about one but that was it.
    I don't have to convince anyone not even the DWP - that is their choice as to whether they believe me or not.
    And there is no law in this land that says what I do with the money. I could simply burn it, buy illegal drugs with it or even bet on the horses with it. I choose to give it to my children. If you have a problem with that pity you!
  • NeilCr
    NeilCr Posts: 4,430
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    Without quoting chapter and verse. I have one report dated 2014 when tested for Dementia that clearly states that I have great difficulties in coping and understanding new information, and sequencing as well as showing a noticeable loss of functional & analytical skills.. I have memory loss which is confirmed with a diagnosis of Dementia caused either by vascular problems (most likely) or alcoholism (unlikely) which is being treated.
    .

    In which case can I strongly suggest that you don't give advice to anyone on any of the forums here. Given your confusion and memory loss you could easily lead someone astray. I am sure you wouldn't want that to happen
  • bigbulldog
    bigbulldog Posts: 632
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    Christ he has dementia NOW what ever next a lost limb:rotfl:no not that as he would not be able to lift his Motability scooter onto the back seat of his prestige car.:rotfl::rotfl:
  • tomtom256
    tomtom256 Posts: 2,208
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    No, I am going for it. I know that I am entitled to some level of PIP even going by the points not given for those sections that are completely false.
    It just shows that having someone help you may not be the best thing to do. Every time I have asked for help in the past, they did a far better job of explaining my problems than I could have done and because of that I was awarded DLA twice.
    It has been a let down to find that this time, I have been shafted.
    Without quoting chapter and verse. I have one report dated 2014 when tested for Dementia that clearly states that I have great difficulties in coping and understanding new information, and sequencing as well as showing a noticeable loss of functional & analytical skills.. I have memory loss which is confirmed with a diagnosis of Dementia caused either by vascular problems (most likely) or alcoholism (unlikely) which is being treated.
    I am not going to improve. Yet the assessor dismissed all of that evidence.

    And that sums it up, the typical I know that I am entitled to it.

    Entitled, not eligible, but entitled, shall I get you the moon on a stick as well!
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