Overstating how much you earn when applying for a job.
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When you are recruiting staff, you normally look at their employment history. This will be both the jobs they have done, and the salary they were being paid.
If someone moves to a job earning the same or less money, it's an area to investigate.
If someone has been promoted two or three times internally, its a point in their favour. This shows up in the salary they have been earning.
If someone has been unemployed for a while and is applying for a job paying less than their previous salary, you need to consider how happy they would be if they took this job and how long they would be likely to stay.
Of course, current salary will also have a bearing on what you offer a new recruit, but its not the only reason for asking the question.0 -
If someone moves to a job earning the same or less money, it's an area to investigate.
Surely this says more about the previous employer than it does about the employee? Only reason someone would move to a job with lower pay is due to a move to a lower paid area, better prospects/convenience or because they hated their employer.Of course, current salary will also have a bearing on what you offer a new recruit.
Again I don't see how it does as long as the potential employee isn't a complete walkover. I'd always have a salary I'd want when applying for a job. If they didn't offer that because of my previous salary then I'd thank them for their time and look elsewhere. Surely this is common sense?
It's also a bad idea from the employers POV because if I did take the job I'd be looking to use it as a stepping stone into a role paying the salary I wanted.0 -
ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »If it doesn't affect what you offer to pay someone then why do you even ask the question, let alone ask for proof?
It's a matter of trust. If we are recruiting for as sales person, and the person being interviewed says they earned a certain amount including commission, then the payslips prove that. It shows us that what they said at the interview was true. We have withdrawn job offers when what someone earned was substantially different to what was said at interview.0 -
ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »They ask them a question about salary and then check the answer just to see if they can trust them; and don't in any way base the offer on the answer? Do you actually believe that?
How can people make claims like that and in the same breath say that they don't lie?
I don't know about places you've worked at but we make an offer subject to references and providing payslips. The offer is based on what they say at the interview not on the pay slips they provide after they are offered a job.0 -
Malthusian wrote: »That doesn't prove anything except whether they're savvy enough to say "I sacrificed part of my salary for a pension contribution".
Of course you could then ask for their pension statement, but if you're going to go that far I'm not sure I'd want to work there anyway. It sounds like the kind of place that would put you in front of a disciplinary panel for taking an envelope from the stationery cupboard.
Are you really going to employ the second best candidate for the job because the first one bent the truth about his current salary for negotiation purposes? Either you think he's worth the salary you've negotiated or you don't. If you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys.
No, we'll start again to find the best candidate. We make an offer based on what the person says at interview and the offer is subject to references and providing payslips. Have we withdrawn a job offer because the payslips show a significantly different amount, yes we have.0 -
I thought it was pretty standard practice to overstate your salary (and believe most employers expect this to a certain extent as it's a bit of a game)but within reason! Most of them appreciate you will want an increase to move, so take this into account (you don't want to push them above their budget).
Having said if they ask you, there are often better ways of approaching this (especially if you are in a sales/ purchasing role (or any role that requires negotiation!)).
Put off the question and talk along the lines of this job/ package is very different to the one you are in, I am sure you can put a very attractive offer to me.
If it's an external role you should know the rough range of salaries they can offer! Then something along the lines of 'I understand that this role offers in the range of x-y... and put the question back to them!0 -
It is NOT fraud, what a foolish statement, fraud is a criminal offence, if you are going to make such comments please quote the law from legislation.gov.uk that specifically substantiates your comment.
It is very common to exaggerate salary in certain roles.
It may be common but that does not make it legal.
There used to be a separate offence of attempting to obtain a pecuniary advantage by deception. More recently it was incorporated into the Fraud Act of 2006. Section 2 is particularly relevant.
By lying to a potential employer in order to increase your chances of obtaining a paid job or a higher salary you are committing fraud.
To say "I won't work for you unless you pay me £X is fine" but to say "My current employer pays me £X when that is untrue is fraud".
For your information.....
Section 2 Fraud by false representation
(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b) intends, by making the representation—
(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2) A representation is false if—
(a )it is untrue or misleading, and
(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.
(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—
(a) the person making the representation, or
(b) any other person.
(4) A representation may be express or implied.
(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).
Now, how about an apology?0 -
Surely this says more about the previous employer than it does about the employee? Only reason someone would move to a job with lower pay is due to a move to a lower paid area, better prospects/convenience or because they hated their employer.
Or because they were allowed to resign from the previous job instead of being sacked.
Or because they were dismissed from the earlier job
The reasons why someone leaves a job for one with lower pay might be down to a bad employer but may also be down to a bad employee.
On the more general issue about lying about your salary, its not OK because there is a trust issue. If you are asked about it you can always talk about your salary expectations rather than you current salary, which does not require you to lie.
A lot of people may lie, but it is a bad idea. Most employers take a dim view of discovering that an employee or candidate is dishonest.All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)0 -
Of course no Apology because it simply would not apply in the context the OP outlines because there is no legal duty to disclose.
You make yourself look even MORE foolish for suggesting it could.
Honestly!!
That is complete irrelevant. They are deliberately making a false statement in an attempt to fraudulently obtain a financial advantage.
As I said, they are totally free to say how much they want, what they are not entitled to do is to lie.
Yes, prosecutions are rare but they can and do happen.
In your previous post you demanded that I provided the legislation, which you implied didn't exist. I have done just that so I think you are the one looking foolish / ignorant!0 -
It always amuses me how, when someone else tells you something that is untrue for their own advantage, it is always a lie. When you do it yourself, is an "over statement" or some such form of words. And the more people who do the same thing, the less it matters.
A lie is a lie. If you lie, be prepared to accept that there are consequences when you are found out.0
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