Power of Attorney Question

cavyslave · 3 July 2015 at 2:59PM

Hi,

I recently registered my 92 year old BIL's POA with the OPG and the documents all came back last week. I phoned Santander to make an appointment to register the POA with them as my BIL is no longer able to conduct his financial affairs due to dementia. They have told me that although I can be added as a signatory on the account I will not be permitted to have a debit card, although I will be able to access internet banking. This presents a problem because I live over 50 miles from him and usually order his shopping online and pay for it with my card, and then when I visit him he pays me back the money in the form of a cheque which obviously takes time to clear back into my account. There are things he needs, like a new washing machine, which I do not have the funds to pay for and was hoping that by having a debit card I could order the items and payment would come directly from his account instead of via mine. Would I be able to use his debit card to do this, as he is not able to process information enough to order something himself either online or over the telephone?

EssexExile · 3 July 2015 at 3:43PM

Santander can be pain in the thingy can't they? We had a debit card for my FIL's Natwest account & if they can do you would think Santander could. I'd phone again, you might get someone more helpful next time. But with Santander I wouldn't count on it.

cavyslave · 3 July 2015 at 3:54PM

Thank you for your reply.

I was given to understand that a POA for property and financial affairs would give the attorney the same benefits as are afforded to the account holder. Obviously this is not the case with some financial institutions...

chris_m · 3 July 2015 at 4:00PM

cavyslave wrote: »

I will not be permitted to have a debit card, although I will be able to access internet banking. This presents a problem because I live over 50 miles from him and usually order his shopping online and pay for it with my card, and then when I visit him he pays me back the money in the form of a cheque which obviously takes time to clear back into my account.

Would you not be able to pay with your card, as you do now, but use the internet banking to transfer that sum from his bank account to yours instead of him writing you a cheque?

That's what I did for anything my Dad needed - not because I had PoA (although I actually did) but with his permission to do his internet banking for him because he couldn't manage it. He needed one pair of specs for the computer screen and another for HSBC's button box. By the time he'd swapped specs the darned box had auto powered off :mad:

xylophone · 3 July 2015 at 4:10PM

Are you registering POA on an existing account as POA rather than as a court appointed deputy?

According to the Santander form Registering a Power of Attorney
or Court of Protection Order with Santander

"What account access is provided?
Once an attorney/deputy has been registered, depending on the type of the attorney, they may be able to service the
accounts in the following ways:
■ In branch (please remember to take in ID such as a driving licence or a passport).
■ Internet access can be provided for Ordinary Power of Attorneys, Lasting Power of Attorneys and Enduring Power of
Attorneys when requested.
■ Court appointed deputies can also have internet access when requested. Please note that it is Santander Policy to cancel
the account holder’s cards and internet access when a court appointed deputy is registered. This is to protect the account
holder by ensuring they can’t access funds without you.
Please call the helpline on 0845 604 8098* to discuss your personal needs."

Does this not imply that the Attorney can use the debit card on the existing account??

cavyslave · 3 July 2015 at 4:12PM

That's a good idea Chris, I didn't think of that. I also asked them if they could stop sending him bank statements because he bins every letter that goes to his house, including bank statements and bills so it is impossible for me to keep track of things at the moment. They said no, they would have to keep sending statements even though I explained that the statements often upset him and make him confused (he has recently started accusing people of stealing his things, including his carers and the neighbour who sometimes pops in, silly things like pens, toilet rolls and old disposable razors) He is paranoid about his bank account and denies allowing me permission to set up direct debits for his utility bills (he did agree) and I'm worried he's going to try to cancel them if he sees other bills going out on DD.

cavyslave · 3 July 2015 at 4:14PM

Yes Xylophone, it does! &#55357;&#56871;

I am registering POA on an existing account as his attorney. There are no other attorneys and I am not a deputy.

xylophone · 3 July 2015 at 5:11PM

I am registering POA on an existing account as his attorney. There are no other attorneys and I am not a deputy.

Phone (or write) to query?

Biggles · 3 July 2015 at 5:21PM

xylophone wrote: »

Does this not imply that the Attorney can use the debit card on the existing account??

Not necessarily, they should issue a cheque book in the Attorney's name and a new debit card too. When I had PoA for my mother, getting on for ten years ago now, the cheque book was in my name, followed by 'POA for Mrs A Biggles' and they added her account to my online banking.

Santander's pdf helpsheet (on their FAQs page with a link that doesn't seem to work on here) says that the LPA 'can allow a third party to access and manage the account holder’s finances', so a cheque book and debit card will be necessary.

Cavyslave, have you phoned their 'PoA Application Team' on 0845 604 8098? They should really be able to help. If, in fact, it was them you phoned before then I would do what EssexExile suggested and phone again, you will probably speak to someone with a bit more idea. Don't go into a branch, local staff in most banks seem to have no idea of PoAs.

As regards buying stuff yourself and transferring the money, I would be inclined to only do that if it became absolutely necessary, for several reasons. First of all, you may just possibly be called upon to show you were acting in the best interests of the Donor, as you are required to do, and if you are making lots of transfers from their account to yours over a period of time that becomes more difficult to demonstrate. There could also be difficulties related to IHT (if that money were deemed to have been a gift to you) and deprivation of assets (if he should go into a care home at some stage). It's so much more straightforward if anything he pays for goes directly to the retailer or service provider from his account.

jonesMUFCforever · 3 July 2015 at 5:34PM

cavyslave wrote: »

Yes Xylophone, it does! ��

I am registering POA on an existing account as his attorney. There are no other attorneys and I am not a deputy.

Worst case scenario - open a sole account in your name with Santander (or any bank really) and use internet access to transfer funds to this account to pay bills by the debit card they will issue to you on this new account.
A bit of a pain I know but a possible workaround.
By having this seperate account you can keep BIL's funds away from your own should you be requested to show what the funds have been used for.

agrinnall · 3 July 2015 at 6:38PM

Ignore Santander, who cannot just make stuff up. As an attorney you are in effect the same person as the donor, and you have the legal right to conduct financial affairs in the way that the donor would. I would just use his card and PIN and tell Santander to get stuffed. And if they do anything to prevent you operating the account complain to the FOS and the OPG.

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