HP want to recover vehicle. What to do?

doomandgloom · 18 November 2014 at 5:20PM

My HP co want to recover my car. They won't let me keep it due to BR and won't let anyone take over the agreement.

I have no money but I NEED a car.

I have mentioned before I have a cousin who may have let me "have" his car. He now wants paying. He said he will accept monthly payments until paid off but is no longer able to let me just have it.

If I run this by the OR what will they say? I'm really stuck here. No car for me means no job. Means no nothing.

Please please please give me some good advice. I thought the HP would let me keep it so this has come as a massive blow and I really can't think of what to do. And unfortunate I don't have any family members who can help me out in any other way.

I feel like giving up and that this whole BR process is against me

tigerfeet2006 · 19 November 2014 at 3:54AM

As I mentioned in your other post you should have stopped paying the HP on the car and purchased another car with the saved money.

HP companies are not known for letting BR keep cars, repossession is the usual modus operandi.

The only thing you can do is work out how much you can squirrel away money out of your agreed SoA each month, maybe from your groceries, to give to your cousin.

Actually, quick thought, did the OR allow the HP expenses on your SoA? How much does cousin want for the car? How much are the repayments?

tigerfeet2006 · 19 November 2014 at 3:56AM

And another, didn't you also work out you couldn't afford repayments?

doomandgloom · 19 November 2014 at 6:19AM

Hi tigerfeet2006

Still haven't had a formal interview with the OR so I don't actually know if this was allowed in the SOA but the way the OR was talking did say I could keep it because they would have no interest in it. I also assumed I could keep it as cab said there shouldn't be a problem on the OR or HP side.

In terms of paying... Again you're right when I first went BR I could not afford it full stop and maybe still can't. However I have been moved to another job where I could potentially earn commission and this would probably would have just about covered the HP without having to dip too much into housekeeping etc so I was hoping the OR would be ok with that but like I say the OR has not been in touch for over a month.

My thinking was if I would have been allowed to pay the HP then would I be allowed to pay my cousin? The reason I didn't save is because it all sounded good at the time...it really looked like he was able to just give me the car. He can't help his situation changing but doesn't help me a great deal now!

doomandgloom · 19 November 2014 at 6:26AM

And here's the other sticky point. The car is worth 1800 which is what he wants so ideally would want 150 per month for a year.

I know there is an issue with the value here. But can I argue that it is essential? Which it is i can't rely on public transport or taxis to get me and the little one to daycare and to work and back again and sounds like now I could be posted in other offices... A hike in the fuel expenses. Aaahhhhh.

Or do I just have to realise that the OR might not be that sympathetic? Will I end up having to sell that car to get a cheaper one?

jamesd · 19 November 2014 at 9:51AM

That car value seems reasonable. You appear to have a clear need for the car and the OR is likely to understand this. Tell the OR about that and the possible change in fuel cost and seek their guidance on how they want it handled.

alastairq · 19 November 2014 at 10:03AM

What the car is worth, and what one pays for it, are two entirely different things.

In order for an Undischarged BAnkrupt to have a vehicle 'exempted as an asset'....a 'need' has to be demonstrated.

What does the official receiver consider when deciding whether my vehicle is exempt property?

a) Is it used for work?

The official receiver looks at whether:

• you use the vehicle in your work;
• you would find it difficult to travel to and from your place of work without your own vehicle because there is no other kind of transport available, such as a bus or train service;
• you would find it harder to get a job (including finding work if you are self-employed) without using the vehicle, even though you may not be working at the date of the bankruptcy order.

‘Vocation’ can include being a full-time carer of a disabled relative or friend, where you would use your vehicle in connection with that role. If you receive a carer’s allowance for doing this, you could use an official letter or statement about the allowance as evidence that you are following a vocation as a carer.
b) Is it needed to meet a basic domestic need of you and your family?
The official receiver will consider these issues:
• Does the vehicle meet a genuine need rather than being used simply for convenience?
• If you have a disability, the official receiver must be satisfied that the vehicle gives you a level of independent living that is only possible because you have your own vehicle. For example, it may be the most practical way for you to go to medical appointments or get routine care related to your disability.
• If you say you need the vehicle to take children to and from school, you will need to show there is no alternative to using your own vehicle, and the distance to travel means that walking or cycling is not practical. If you live in a rural area, it is not enough to say a motor vehicle is exempt property just because your child’s school is a long way from home.
Official receivers use their discretion and consider the facts on a case-by-case basis.

For more about exempt property, please see ‘Guide to Bankruptcy’, which you can find on our website: https://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/publications

So, you need to prove that you need the vehicle, in line with what shown above.

In simple terms, you should be able to show that public transport is either far more costly [in terms of money and time]...or non-existent.

The most important point regarding the car's exemption is, you get to be able to put all running costs down on your SOA.

This can include repaying your relative.

With regards to the car's perceived value [as an asset], you could argue to the OR that this was the only easy way for you to purchase a suitable vehicle, given your restricted income. [Pointing out, it is unlikely anyone would give you credit, given that you are an Undischarged Bankrupt?]

Remember, going through the SOA with the OR, is an agreement, and not the OR's imposition.

If you think an expenditure is entirely justified, and essential for your 'reasonable living needs', then put your case.

The OR will operate within guidelines, set by the Insolvency Service.

If the OR varies from these guidelines , then they must have evidence, from you, to justify [to various other bodies] why they have agreed to a variation.

Regarding the car's value?

The OR [as seen in the IS information pack, available online] starts by using Parker's guide.

That is where you should start when assessing the car's value, in real terms [not, for what you have agreed to pay for it].

You will quote, at the least, its auction value..ie the very lowest.

If you find faults with the car, you need to really emphasise those faults [body damage and condition is important when valuing your car.]!

You will probably find the car can be valued, in reality, a lot less than what you have agreed to pay for it!

That will be for you & your relative to sort out.

Remember, the car must also be taxed, insured [and MoT'd] to be exempted.

doomandgloom · 19 November 2014 at 2:56PM

Hi everyone

Thank you all for your responses and taking the time out to advise me, especially alastairq for your detailed response.

We have both used the parkers guide to determine value. He actually wanted 2k but I explained i can only pay for what it is deemed to be worth. Bless him for trying!

And yes I can show a clear need. Taxis would be far more expensive and I can't get a bus to where I work for the time of day I start.

I feel a wee bit relieved after all your comments. I think I need to ring the OR because I don't know where I stand plus I will shortly need to notify a change in circumstances when I get paid from this new job.

I am a worrier and that's my biggest problem! But seriously thanks guys

tigerfeet2006 · 20 November 2014 at 3:55AM

If you have problems then come back here and we have the excellent debt doctor who can help fight your corner.

doomandgloom · 21 November 2014 at 11:55AM

Some cracking advice and thanks again for alleviating my fears.

Phoned the OR. Really should have done that aaaaaaaages ago. But yes I can 'hire' the vehicle from him. Should he wish to gift that to me so I own it then advised to do this post discharge.

I feel a lot better after taking the crunch and just ringing. Don't know why I was so worried!

philnicandevan · 21 November 2014 at 2:17PM

doomandgloom wrote: »

I feel a lot better after taking the crunch and just ringing. Don't know why I was so worried!

its because most people seem to think the OR's examiners etc are horrible to everyone (ogres!) most are very helpful and approchable...always the odd one though thats not!!

glad you sorted it in the end

HP want to recover vehicle. What to do?

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