is it worth joining a union?

bugslet wrote: »

I know unions can negotiate more than pay, but that was the briefest of examples.

As for over Xmas, I presume you mean the actual bank holidays, we'd talk to the staff currently. I don't know how it works in other places, I 've only ever worked for small companies, but it's always been sorted out. I'll give you a real life example going back a few years.

We used to do transport in the UK only and then we dipped our toes in to Europe. Some of the early journeys were only a few hours to destination and back to port, less than 8 hours altogether. Of course the UK pay structure wasn't designed to deal with that type of scenario where people weren't working, but free to dispose of their time, seeing tulips in Amsterdam or whatever, but also limited by being in a foreign country and meeting ferry times. So a couple of the drivers came to us and we thought yes, you are right it's currently a rubbish system. It got changed and as long as you are abroad you are guaranteed 12 hours, 8 hours basic and four hours overtime, even if you only work 2 hours. If you work more than 12, those hours are paid as well. There were other changes, but let's keep it simple. The drivers thought it was fair and over the years since we put a lot of effort in and discussed it with the lads, it's stood with a few minor tweaks as regulations and the job evolves.

Maybe other places work from a position of seeing how little they can get away with, whereas we work from what's the maximum we can afford. Another example! Every Xmas we give a bonus, bottle or crate of their choice and a £100.00. Xmas before last they were surprised to find £500.00 bonus, because we had had a good year and we shared it.


I can't imagine us ever not getting an agreement with staff over Xmas to use your example. It s just not how it works with us.

MatthewAinsworth wrote: »

Scd3 - you said well trained - jobs that are more skilled have more ability to strike/whatever, most of the people I work with are replaceable - striking is a privilege for the elite, it's not something we could do

Unions use more hostile forms of negotiation, like threatening strikes, overtime band, etc - and they try to achieve pay & conditions that are unnaturally above market rate, in doing so they make it more expensive for companies to hire and more expensive for customers to buy a service -
remember that everybody is a customer... Including unskilled workers and pensioners

When we had a restructuring meeting 1 of the 3 unions my colleagues use turned up for a recruitment drive, they only managed to delay what happened by raising questions, that was all they did, they stopped nothing, I feel like my colleagues are being ripped off

john22 wrote: »

Yes it can in some cases and in other cases it can quicken the demise of a company.

MatthewAinsworth wrote: »

A lower market rate or less holiday, sick pay, etc means it's cheaper to keep staff, therefore more jobs will be available, if enough jobs are available competition to recruit would push wages up - the fact that we're raising NMW before that even happens means we're not giving the economy the chance to create naturally sustainable higher pay.

And of staff are more expensive, every product you but will be more expensive - and suppose you were buying something labour intensive, like a house, elderly care or child care, those would be more expensive. You'll pay most of these (apart from childcare) from your taxed net pay, but what you receive would've been reduced by tax and tax credit tapers, so overall you lose more than you gain - I think this is a bigger reason for poverty than anything else

The train drivers strike, doctors strike, Bank of England workers strike pee me off, cleaners less so, but they're replaceable, and they could just look elsewhere for work anyway

bugslet wrote: »

*Full disclosure, I have a one year old Giant schnauzer for whom I have taken out Insurance for her first year only.