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  • FIRST POST
    • bluphoto7
    • By bluphoto7 11th Nov 17, 11:03 AM
    • 74Posts
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    bluphoto7
    Reclaiming VAT on clothes for children
    • #1
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:03 AM
    Reclaiming VAT on clothes for children 11th Nov 17 at 11:03 AM
    Are children’s clothes still exempt from VAT?
    If so, then surely I can reclaim VAT from clothes bought for my 14yo son, yes?
    He’s into size 7 shoes now, and they’re getting real expensive!

    Thanks
    Guy
Page 1
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 11th Nov 17, 11:06 AM
    • 1,869 Posts
    • 2,362 Thanks
    unforeseen
    • #2
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:06 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:06 AM
    Nope you can't reclaim. The VAT exemption is for clothes that are made for children Not adult clothes that fit children.
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 11th Nov 17, 11:16 AM
    • 2,851 Posts
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    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #3
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:16 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:16 AM
    If they were exempt from VAT then you wouldn’t have paid any VAT in the first place.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 11th Nov 17, 11:19 AM
    • 1,869 Posts
    • 2,362 Thanks
    unforeseen
    • #4
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:19 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:19 AM
    Size 7 shoes are not exempt because they are an adult size. OP wanted to claim the VAT back on them.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 11th Nov 17, 11:49 AM
    • 5,382 Posts
    • 4,732 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #5
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:49 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:49 AM
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-714-zero-rating-young-childrens-clothing-and-footwear/vat-notice-714-zero-rating-young-childrens-clothing-and-footwear

    "Children's" clothes are defined by size, not age of the wearer. If they meet the criteria then no VAT is charged on them (technically they are zero rated, not exempt). Since none has been charged, you cannot reclaim it.

    size 7 shoes are precisely 1/2 size too large to be categorised as a child size, so are subject to normal 20% VAT which you cannot reclaim.

    "4.3 Footwear
    HMRC will accept that footwear is designed for young people when the following measurements are met:

    Boys shoes: up to and including size 6½.

    Girls court shoes (that is a low cut shoe without straps or other fastenings): up to (and including) size 3.
    Other girls shoes: up to (and including) size 3; and sizes 3½ to 5½ as long as the heel height doesn’t exceed the sole depth by more than 4cms (approx 1⅔ inches)."
    Last edited by 00ec25; 11-11-2017 at 11:53 AM.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 11th Nov 17, 12:44 PM
    • 23,464 Posts
    • 13,640 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #6
    • 11th Nov 17, 12:44 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Nov 17, 12:44 PM
    4.3 Footwear
    HMRC will accept that footwear is designed for young people when the following measurements are met:

    Boys shoes: up to and including size 6½.

    Girls court shoes (that is a low cut shoe without straps or other fastenings): up to (and including) size 3.
    Other girls shoes: up to (and including) size 3; and sizes 3½ to 5½
    as long as the heel height doesn’t exceed the sole depth by more than 4cms (approx 1⅔ inches)."

    Gender discrimination.......

    Bring on the court case and the compo!
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 11th Nov 17, 2:55 PM
    • 2,851 Posts
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    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #7
    • 11th Nov 17, 2:55 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Nov 17, 2:55 PM
    Size 7 shoes are not exempt because they are an adult size. OP wanted to claim the VAT back on them.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    I understood that, it just didn’t seem like OP understood how VAT works. Like I said, if they had been exempt or zero rated (I accept they aren’t in this case) there wouldn’t have been any VAT charged in the first place so nothing to reclaim (not that individuals can reclaim VAT on their purchases anyway).
    • bluphoto7
    • By bluphoto7 11th Nov 17, 5:26 PM
    • 74 Posts
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    bluphoto7
    • #8
    • 11th Nov 17, 5:26 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Nov 17, 5:26 PM
    Struggling to get my head around the difference between designed for children and “designed for small people”.
    For me, the first definition should go by age, and the second feels discriminatory.

    Is the HMRC definition of a child “a person with feet smaller than size 7”?

    Just paid £40 for my boys boots, where the identical size 6 was £29.99. (So adult is 33% more)
    Last edited by bluphoto7; 11-11-2017 at 5:30 PM.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 11th Nov 17, 5:35 PM
    • 5,382 Posts
    • 4,732 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #9
    • 11th Nov 17, 5:35 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Nov 17, 5:35 PM
    Gender discrimination.......

    Bring on the court case and the compo!
    Originally posted by xylophone
    indeed, after all we should be buying gender neutral clothes and shoes as we are all entering the world of androgyny. Instead HMRC persists in crude displays of skirtism

    "Boys
    Garment Chest Waist
    Shirts 104cms 41.0’’
    Knitwear 104cms 41.0’’
    Jackets, waistcoats 109cms 43.0’’
    Top coats, outerwear 114cms 44.5’’
    Dresses N/A N/A
    Skirts* N/A N/A

    Trousers, shorts* 72cms 28.5’’
    Underwear, swimwear 88cms 34.5’’ 72cms 28.5’’
    Nightwear 105cms 41.5’’ 73cms 29.0’’

    (*Those garments with elasticated waistbands should be measured at their full stretch. Those that have no fastening may be zero rated up to a maximum stretched waist of 85 cms (33½”) for boys and 90cms (35½”) for girls.)"


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/22/teenage-boys-wear-skirts-to-school-protest-no-shorts-uniform-policy
    Last edited by 00ec25; 11-11-2017 at 5:38 PM.
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 12th Nov 17, 3:33 AM
    • 7,346 Posts
    • 12,244 Thanks
    dori2o
    indeed, after all we should be buying gender neutral clothes and shoes as we are all entering the world of androgyny. Instead HMRC persists in crude displays of skirtism

    "Boys
    Garment Chest Waist
    Shirts 104cms 41.0’’
    Knitwear 104cms 41.0’’
    Jackets, waistcoats 109cms 43.0’’
    Top coats, outerwear 114cms 44.5’’
    Dresses N/A N/A
    Skirts* N/A N/A

    Trousers, shorts* 72cms 28.5’’
    Underwear, swimwear 88cms 34.5’’ 72cms 28.5’’
    Nightwear 105cms 41.5’’ 73cms 29.0’’

    (*Those garments with elasticated waistbands should be measured at their full stretch. Those that have no fastening may be zero rated up to a maximum stretched waist of 85 cms (33½”) for boys and 90cms (35½”) for girls.)"


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/22/teenage-boys-wear-skirts-to-school-protest-no-shorts-uniform-policy
    Originally posted by 00ec25
    HMRC do no such thing, they simply enforce the legislation passed and written by HMTreasury (office of the Chancellor of the Exchequer)..
    To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 12th Nov 17, 8:13 AM
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    Pennywise
    HMRC do no such thing, they simply enforce the legislation passed and written by HMTreasury (office of the Chancellor of the Exchequer)..
    Originally posted by dori2o
    As you well know, legislation wording can't possibly cover every detail, so HMRC do make their own interpretations, and have often lost challenged in tribunals and courts, when the tribunal has disagreed with HMRCs operation of particular bits of legislation.

    Eg the written legislation doesn't lay out the sizes etc as copied/pasted by 00ec25.
    • Altarf
    • By Altarf 12th Nov 17, 8:35 AM
    • 2,849 Posts
    • 1,678 Thanks
    Altarf
    Is the HMRC definition of a child “a person with feet smaller than size 7”?
    Originally posted by bluphoto7
    The zero rating is not for children's clothing, but for clothing designed for young children which includes those up to age 13.

    When VAT was introduced the zero rating was agreed as it reflected the exemption from Purchase Tax for clothing for school children, and when Purchase Tax was introduced the school leaving age was 14.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 12th Nov 17, 9:13 AM
    • 17,344 Posts
    • 11,520 Thanks
    molerat
    MrsM is sitting here waiting for the knock for evading VAT after buying her boys trainers instead of the more expensive girls/ladies.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 12th Nov 17, 9:38 AM
    • 5,382 Posts
    • 4,732 Thanks
    00ec25
    HMRC do no such thing, they simply enforce the legislation passed and written by HMTreasury (office of the Chancellor of the Exchequer)..
    Originally posted by dori2o
    LOL, bit of an overreaction ?

    so HMRC does not concede that boys may wear skirts (tell that to a Scotsman!!!!), and where girls wear shorts they can be 2 inches fatter than boys. Such Victorian era discrimination
    Last edited by 00ec25; 13-11-2017 at 8:04 PM.
    • zaax
    • By zaax 12th Nov 17, 9:23 PM
    • 1,803 Posts
    • 716 Thanks
    zaax
    Complain to your MP
    Do you want your money back, and a bit more, search for 'money claim online' - They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 13th Nov 17, 8:09 AM
    • 9,339 Posts
    • 16,968 Thanks
    Pennywise
    No more ridiculous than there being VAT on a gingerbread man with chocolate covered legs, but no VAT on a gingerbread man with chocolate eyes.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 13th Nov 17, 12:18 PM
    • 5,382 Posts
    • 4,732 Thanks
    00ec25
    No more ridiculous than there being VAT on a gingerbread man with chocolate covered legs, but no VAT on a gingerbread man with chocolate eyes.
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    Lol Jaffa Cakes to you too
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 13th Nov 17, 6:29 PM
    • 3,875 Posts
    • 2,882 Thanks
    sheramber
    When UK joined the European Economic Community in the 1970's as a concession we were only allowed to have zero rating for those goods already zero rated. No other items could be added.

    So, at present, we are stuck with what was in place then.
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