Free Parking at ASDA Fleetwood until ParkingEye get their act together

keepitlegal · 17 February 2017 at 1:32PM

Urgently need assistance on this.
I've been informed by the planning dept that Asda will be submitting a advertising application for the signs early next week, when the application is received the planning officer is going to contact me to submit my comments.
Aithough Asda are aware that the signs are illegal they have made no attempt to either remove or cover up the signs, I will bring this to the attention of the council when I make my comments, obviously this will not be enough, is there anything else I can use to have the advertising application refused?
Thanks
Keepitlegal

Guys_Dad · 17 February 2017 at 1:38PM

Do you actually have any solid grounds to object?

You can try to make it a condition that the cancel any parking charges prior to gaining planning consent, but you might need a couple of councillors' backing for that (if it is in the powers of the planners that is)

keepitlegal · 17 February 2017 at 2:00PM

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Do you actually have any solid grounds to object?

You can try to make it a condition that the cancel any parking charges prior to gaining planning consent, but you might need a couple of councillors' backing for that (if it is in the powers of the planners that is)

That's the problem, other than Asda knowingly flouting the law I have nothing. TBH I think the council are more than happy to rubber stamp the application, they have been very obstructive since my initial complaint, I also doubt they have the authority or want any involvement with any parking charges that have been administered before advertising consent is granted.
Anything at all I can use to create problems for Asda/Parking Eye will give me a great deal of pleasure.
Thanks
Keepitlegal

fisherjim · 17 February 2017 at 2:07PM

I suspect big business contributing thousands in business rates will trump any fair play, and your options are probably limited to highlighting this in the media.

keepitlegal · 17 February 2017 at 2:37PM

fisherjim wrote: »

I suspect big business contributing thousands in business rates will trump any fair play, and your options are probably limited to highlighting this in the media.

That is going to happen, letter and photos to our local papers.

mowkid · 20 February 2017 at 5:04PM

I have been helping a lady on another thread to fight a 5 year old Excel claim. During my efforts I've become more interested in helping to rid us of these parasites.
I checked on my local authority web site planning section for car park planning applications and could find none. Having done that I have my local councill9or on the job trying to get an answer from the planning dept as to why they have allowed carparks with signs and ANPR to get set up without planning.
I'm expecting to be fobbed off with a "no need " so Iwould like to know exactly where it says in the town and CFountry Planning Act that car park signs are adverts.

Umkomaas · 20 February 2017 at 7:31PM

Signage needs 'Advertising Consent'. Not to have it is a criminal offence, but no LA that has been challenged has prosecuted, despite being its responsibility. Of particular note in this context is Liverpool LA in relation to Liverpool John Lennon Airport. It has been ducking and diving for a couple of years on this, despite sterling work from PePiPoo poster 'hexaflexagon'.

ANPR cameras (as I understand it) require 'Planning Permission' if new poles to house them are erected, but not if tacked on to an existing building. Less sure of my grounds in this respect, others might comment later.

Timothea · 21 February 2017 at 12:11AM

The relevant legislation is The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007, which refers to the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. Private parking signage is not listed under any exemption in the 2007 Regulations, so it requires advertising consent.

Local Authorities rarely, if ever, prosecute offenders over the failure to obtain advertising consent, but they can use the threat of prosecution to force offenders to comply. However, as it is a crime, advertising consent cannot be granted retrospectively.

There is a legal doctrine, known as ex turpi causa non oritur actio, that means a claimant will be unable to pursue a legal remedy if it arises in connection with his own illegal act. Some would argue that offering a contract based on illegal signage clearly makes the contract unenforceable. As far as I am aware, this has not been tested in court in relation to parking on private land. This legal doctrine is very old and rarely used, so District Judges are likely to dismiss such an argument out of hand, because it's too difficult.

Advertising consent, where it is needed, can be 'express' or 'deemed'. Express consent is when an application is made to and granted by the Local Authority. Deemed consent is automatically granted to advertisements that:

are in relation to the land or building on which they are displayed;
do not exceed 0.3 square metres in area;
are not located higher than 4.6 metres above ground level; and
are not illuminated.

RobinofLoxley · 21 February 2017 at 12:44AM

Timothea wrote: »

The relevant legislation is The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007, which refers to the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

Local Authorities rarely, if ever, prosecute offenders over the failure to obtain advertising consent, but they use the threat of prosecution to force offenders to comply. However, as it is a crime, advertising consent cannot be granted retrospectively.

There is a legal doctrine, known as ex turpi causa non oritur actio, that means a claimant will be unable to pursue a legal remedy if it arises in connection with his own illegal act. Some would argue that offering a contract based on illegal signage clearly makes the contract unenforceable. As far as I am aware, this has not been tested in court in relation to parking on private land. This legal doctrine is very old and rarely used, so District Judges are likely to dismiss such an argument out of hand, because it's too difficult.

Advertising consent, where it is needed, can be 'express' or 'deemed'. Express consent is when an application is made to and granted by the Local Authority. Deemed consent is automatically granted to advertisements that:
are in relation to the land or building on which they are displayed;

do not exceed 0.3 square metres in area;

are not located higher than 4.6 metres above ground level; and

are not illuminated.

The Prankster reported on a court case last year involving Parking Eye where the defendant had as a central point in their defence the fact that PE didn't have advertising consent for their signs and therefore argued that they couldn't offer a contract based on unlawful signage.
PE withdrew their claim before court day so this particular argument wasn't put to the test.
As you say I'm not aware of it being properly judged on as yet, unless anyone knows any different.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/parkingeye-discontinue-two-cases.html

There is also another aspect of the 'advertising consent' for signs issue that comes into play.
In the Beavis case that PPC's are so fond of reminding us of, the Supreme Court judges commented on the importance of adhering to the BPA's Code of Practice.

"And, while the Code of Practice is not a contractual document, it is in practice binding on the operator since its existence and observance is a condition of his ability to obtain details of the registered keeper from the DVLA. In assessing the fairness of a term, it cannot be right to ignore the regulatory framework which determines how and in what circumstances it may be enforced."

Paragraph 2.4 of the BPA's Code of practice states
“All AOS members must be aware of their legal obligations and implement the relevant legislation and guidance when operating their businesses.”

This surely lends weight to the argument that by not implementing the relevant legislation re signage that require advertising consent, the PPC is not operating correctly and fairly and this should be recognised by any judge.

mowkid · 26 February 2017 at 3:46PM

Thanks for the info. Hopefully I can use it as a clincher with my LA if necessary

Free Parking at ASDA Fleetwood until ParkingEye get their act together

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