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I want revenge
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The_Deep
Posts: 16,830 Forumite
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Last year my son in law, (well me really), parked in a Railway station car park. He bought a ticket and caused no obstruction. The PCN therefore appears to be a penalty[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He appealed in time and it was ignored. Seven DCA letters were received, threatening all sorts of mean stuff. I also wrote several letters to Apcoa, BPA, DVLA, Trading Standards and GWR. I might as well have not bothered. .[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Finally, last week we received a PoPLA code, and I will send off the appeal idc. As they do not have a leg to stand on, they will no doubt withdraw from the appeal process, and I will have spent about several hours of my time dealing with it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now, I do not like people wasting my time, especially firms asking for money to which they have no entitlement, so I am looking for revenge. I have previously warned them of the consequences of persisting in this matter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]My plan is to send them an invoice for £150, which, if ignored, will be repeated, if that is ignored a fully compliant LBA will be sent, seeking costs for unreasonable behaviour, unlawful use of his personal data, and perhaps a few quid for emotional stress. The final amount will be somewhat in excess of £400. Whether this will do the trick or not, I do not know. If they want to play hard ball, and he is up for it, we will issue a claim.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The point is, they know that the RK has no liabiltiy under POFA, they admit that they are not using POFA, but they have launched a sustained campaign of threats and cajolements in an attempt to obtain monies from me by deception.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If push comes to shove, should I try to pursuade s-in-l to go to court. I am prepared to do all the work, cover all the costs, and appear with him in court, if we win the money goes into granddaughters trust fund, [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Am I being a vindictive old !!!!!!, or is there a real chance of doing APCOA some damage? What do others think? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He appealed in time and it was ignored. Seven DCA letters were received, threatening all sorts of mean stuff. I also wrote several letters to Apcoa, BPA, DVLA, Trading Standards and GWR. I might as well have not bothered. .[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Finally, last week we received a PoPLA code, and I will send off the appeal idc. As they do not have a leg to stand on, they will no doubt withdraw from the appeal process, and I will have spent about several hours of my time dealing with it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now, I do not like people wasting my time, especially firms asking for money to which they have no entitlement, so I am looking for revenge. I have previously warned them of the consequences of persisting in this matter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]My plan is to send them an invoice for £150, which, if ignored, will be repeated, if that is ignored a fully compliant LBA will be sent, seeking costs for unreasonable behaviour, unlawful use of his personal data, and perhaps a few quid for emotional stress. The final amount will be somewhat in excess of £400. Whether this will do the trick or not, I do not know. If they want to play hard ball, and he is up for it, we will issue a claim.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The point is, they know that the RK has no liabiltiy under POFA, they admit that they are not using POFA, but they have launched a sustained campaign of threats and cajolements in an attempt to obtain monies from me by deception.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If push comes to shove, should I try to pursuade s-in-l to go to court. I am prepared to do all the work, cover all the costs, and appear with him in court, if we win the money goes into granddaughters trust fund, [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Am I being a vindictive old !!!!!!, or is there a real chance of doing APCOA some damage? What do others think? [/FONT]
You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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Comments
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Last year my son in law, (well me really), parked in a Railway station car park. He bought a ticket and caused no obstruction. The PCN therefore appears to be a penalty[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He appealed in time and it was ignored. Seven DCA letters were received, threatening all sorts of mean stuff. I also wrote several letters to Apcoa, BPA, DVLA, Trading Standards and GWR. I might as well have not bothered. .[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Finally, last week we received a PoPLA code, and I will send off the appeal idc. As they do not have a leg to stand on, they will no doubt withdraw from the appeal process, and I will have spent about several hours of my time dealing with it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now, I do not like people wasting my time, especially firms asking for money to which they have no entitlement, so I am looking for revenge. I have previously warned them of the consequences of persisting in this matter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]My plan is to send them an invoice for £150, which, if ignored, will be repeated, if that is ignored a fully compliant LBA will be sent, seeking costs for unreasonable behaviour, unlawful use of his personal data, and perhaps a few quid for emotional stress. The final amount will be somewhat in excess of £400. Whether this will do the trick or not, I do not know. If they want to play hard ball, and he is up for it, we will issue a claim.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The point is, they know that the RK has no liabiltiy under POFA, they admit that they are not using POFA, but they have launched a sustained campaign of threats and cajolements in an attempt to obtain monies from me by deception.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If push comes to shove, should I try to pursuade s-in-l to go to court. I am prepared to do all the work, cover all the costs, and appear with him in court, if we win the money goes into granddaughters trust fund, [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Am I being a vindictive old !!!!!!, or is there a real chance of doing APCOA some damage? What do others think? [/FONT]
Go for it Deep, I would, anything that gets these cowboys on the run0 -
With the following 'credentials', I don't expect £400 is going to give them sleepless nights:is there a real chance of doing APCOA some damage?
But no doubt you'll give a local manager a headache to defend any case you bring.12 countries
8.442 locations
1,4 million parking spaces
> 150 mio. transactions
1 billion € turnover (2014)
http://www.apcoa.com/company/facts-figures/key-figures.html
However, what would be more difficult for them would be for you to join their Principal in the action (vicarious liability), that would be more of a brick thrown into the pond than the pea gravel stone you are currently taking aim with.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
You have to have a cause of action to sue someone - we always complain that PPCs make out no cause of action in their LBCs and PoC, and the same complaint obviously applies to you as a prospective Claimant.
Causes of action: eg negligence by someone who owes you a duty of care; trespass; breach of contract; conversion (interference with your goods) - you will realise Deep that there are all sorts of causes of action, too numerous to list.
Your LBC will need to say what the cause of action is. This is the part I am struggling with. Perhaps Jonersh might interject at this stage and add his thoughts?
So first things first, what cause of action have you got here? Otherwise they will ask for your claim to be struck out, or they will ultimately win their defence of it and could get R27.14(2)(g) costs from you which would be a bit rich.
I wouldn't send them an invoice - this implies that there is a contract, and there can't on any interpretation be a contract for which you could invoice them and then sue them if they fail to pay it. I understand why you think this would be lovely and symmetrical, to submit and then threaten sue them on an "invoice" when they do the same all the time, but if it's not a valid claim then don't do it.
ATM I'm struggling to see a cause of action, and throw these things out into the ether for consideration:
1. Is there a DPA breach or a trespass (to goods, namely the vehicle - if they had no right to ticket then they had no right to touch the car) here that it might be better to sue for?
2. What about negligence (I'd be interested to see what others think about this)? It might be possible to say that as a person they were threatening to sue, they owed you a duty of care to ensure that they actually had a valid claim, and a duty to then withdraw that threatened claim once you had shown that you had a proper defence to it - if so then they breached that duty and have caused you loss and you are entitled to damages. They of course will argue that they did have a claim and that they think POPLA was wrong, so in essence you may have to argue the entire thing ab initio.Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.0 -
I'm sorry I can't help TD, but I love it when you get angry!0
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It may be worth looking at the consumer credit act thread, hopefully one day there will be enough to knock the teflon of the ppc industry and bring the whole rotten charade down, with serious consequences for major landowners ala the ppi scandalFrom the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"0 -
You have to have a cause of action to sue someone
How about seeking to obtain monies by misrepresentation? Unreasonable behaviour? Knbowingly submitting a false invoice, misuse of personal data? They passed my details to DCA whilst a valid appeal was being considered, (or not). .You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »They of course will argue that they did have a claim and that they think POPLA was wrong.
With APCOA, when a well-presented appeal has been submitted, POPLA are never troubled into having to make a decision - APCOA always tell POPLA that they do not wish to contest the appeal.
Can this be inferred as being an admission from APCOA that they were wrong?0 -
Edna_Basher wrote: »Can this be inferred as being an admission from APCOA that they were wrong?
You could certainly argue that. Surely if they don't contest an appeal they are accepting it has "teeth"?Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.0 -
You have to have a cause of action to sue someone
How about seeking to obtain monies by misrepresentation? Unreasonable behaviour? Knbowingly submitting a false invoice, misuse of personal data? They passed my details to DCA whilst a valid appeal was being considered, (or not). .
Not sure if obtaining monies by misrep/submitting false invoices are civil causes of action or criminal. What about bribery, another criminal offence (obtaining money by making menaces - probably stretching it a bit)?
Yes their behaviour has been entirely unreasonable but you have to find a cause of action to hang a claim on.
Passing details/misuse of data - there you have it, a DPA breach. I think there's also a trespass to goods claim. These are far better than an invoice which you just wouldn't succeed in suing on.
I'm thinking the negligence may have teeth too and am interested to see what Jonersh may have to add about that.Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.0 -
I think there is a general consensus that hitting PPCs with DPA claims is the way to go so that they do not just treat these cases as loss leaders - they need to stand to lose a lot more than they are losing now.
Trouble is all you have is a POPLA withdrawal rather than a DJ dismissing the claim.
However, there does still appear to be a claim and as a PP said, you could argue that the POPLA withdrawal (or POPLA finding in your favour) shows that there is a DPA breach because if they had a case they'd have defended it/won. My thinking is if you threaten/make a DPA claim you might as well shove in a trespass claim.Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.0
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