Fraudulant use of Motability car?

Diary · 22 March 2016 at 11:59AM

My personal feeling in all this was the insurers use any excuse to get out of paying. If my husband had written the car off or some other damage it would have financially crippled us if we'd been found using the car when specifically told not to and any insurance was void.

I think it's wrong but I don't make the usually harsh rules for those of us with disabilities.

Richie-from-the-Boro · 22 March 2016 at 12:21PM

sdfdsfsadas wrote: »

Well I don't intend to do anything that could risk that happening, hence why I am asking. I am sure plenty of people fraudulently use their Motability cars (both intentionally and unintentionally) but I certainly do not intend to be one of them.

Yes, but breeching the terms of the Motability agreement isn't breaking the law. Nor is driving it in terms of insurance (I'll be a named driver on the policy). What IS breaking the law is the tax situation. That's all the police will care about if one of their ANPR cameras flags the car up.

As I say, I'm also unsure about asking Motability - they might just cancel the lease if I start asking about using it for a commute or anything like that.

Its clear to me that you like hundreds before you intend to use it for your own personal use. Stop the pretense and get on with it, I hope you are caught and both yourself and your complicit wife are prosecuted and both the vehicle and blue badge are withdrawn. IDS was always correct - in this case the 'intent' is to defraud.

Richie-from-the-Boro · 22 March 2016 at 2:49PM

sdfdsfsadas wrote: »

Well yes, but as I'm sure you can gather from my posts here, we are a pair of worriers in this household!

Like I say though, it does put us in rather a difficult position. My spouse would much rather I was earning and does not need use of the car while I am at work.

Like I say, I am more than happy to avoid breaking any sort of law/rules, but having an additional vehicle in our household will currently cost us well over £1000 by the time you take into account the cost of a new (2nd hand) vehicle, insurance, MOT, and tax. That is well over a month's income for us and a cost we can scarcely afford. It also seems mad to do this when I will be using our non-motability car while the motability one is simply sat in the driveway. So if there is any legal/non-lease-voiding way around this, I'm obviously very keen to take it.

But while I am hoping that there is a way around this,it seems that if I phone Motability and I hint that I might be doing something that breeches their terms, they'll cancel the lease. As I've also explained, Motability isn't even the main worry here - they might be find with it, but the DVLA/police might not be if I'm caught driving with a disabled tax exempt car without a disabled person in it.

And yes, I did use Google. I found the 5-year-old argument thread on here that I mentioned in my original post (As a new user, I can't post a link to it). Most people on there said it wouldn't be a problem, but it was full of conflicting and anecdotal advice. Good job I'm not in work tomorrow as it's now 3am and I can't sleep through worrying about this.

My spouse has just been granted a Motability car, rules of using the Motability car myself, for commuting

- there are none, its illegal

does not need use of the car while I am at work

- irrelevant, depriving the disabled person the benefit of the car
- illegal on the part of yourself & spouse

an additional vehicle in our household will currently cost us well over £1000

- irrelevant

cost we can scarcely afford

- having the right to the Motability car & blue Badge withdrawn will be an even bigger expense
- add prosecution costs & fines for misuse of the tax disk by DVLA will add to your expense

5-year-old argument thread on here

- no national 'instant' dBase register of BB VED & Motability, with facial pictures of face - there is now
- not linked to ANPR, its now its even on hand held devices issued by local authorities - it is now
- no local BB on street inspections - there is now

Ames · 22 March 2016 at 3:12PM

OP, do you actually have the car yet? If not, you can cancel up until the day you pick it up.

So you'd probably be better off cancelling the motability car and using the money to buy a second hand car. If you can pass the credit checks you could look at getting a conventional lease car, or getting a small loan for a car.

It doesn't sound as though motability is right for you and your partner - what's the point of paying nearly nine grand to have a shiny new car on the drive when most of the time you're stuck using an 'old and knackered' car? (That's assuming your partner doesn't drive).

sdfdsfsadas · 22 March 2016 at 3:37PM

Well once again, I'm getting conflicting advice here. And I didn't expect to come home to all this!

My partner (it's a he if you must know) is the one who decided to get a Motability car, as it will allow him to drive on the limited occasions he needs to. It will also allow me to drive him to places on a regular basis - this is the main way the car will be used. My partner is also the one insisting I use the Motability car to travel to work, as he won't need it when I'm at work anyway (if he does, I'll make alternative arrangements) and he doesn't like the idea of me travelling in the old car.

If people want to suggest I'm just abusing the scheme to get myself a new car, they can quite frankly get stuffed. I would never abuse a system like this, and have decades of experiencing what it is like to be disabled, both from my partner's perspective and my own - I'm well on my way to qualifying for a Motability car myself.

Richie - While you seem very clear on this and I'm tempted to trust you, I do know enough about this to know you are wrong on several points. Mis-use of a Motability car is not illegal, it is merely a breech of their terms. It's like saying not paying your rent is illegal, it isn't. Mis-use of disabled tax is. This is the difference between not paying your rent, and not paying your council tax. It is not my intention to defraud anyone.

EDIT - Also just worked out what BB means - Blue Badge. We've had a Blue Badge for a few years now, and I would NEVER misuse it, and people who do so drive me insane. In fact, almost weekly I drive to the supermarket for my partner, though as he normally isn't with me, I park in a normal space. Walking past the disabled spaces though, it's always the case that more cars don't have BBs than do. I would NEVER abuse this myself and once again, I think you're getting ahead of yourself here and are assuming I'm some sort of fraudster out to damage disabled people's reputation.

Ames - Perhaps your idea is worth looking into instead. We do have the car at present, though perhaps there is some way of cancelling the lease. I am currently strictly adhering to the rules, hence my questions on here. For work I'm still using the old car.

Richie-from-the-Boro · 22 March 2016 at 4:46PM

sdfdsfsadas wrote: »

Well once again, I'm getting conflicting advice here. And I didn't expect to come home to all this!

My partner (it's a he if you must know) is the one who decided to get a Motability car, as it will allow him to drive on the limited occasions he needs to. It will also allow me to drive him to places on a regular basis - this is the main way the car will be used. My partner is also the one insisting I use the Motability car to travel to work, as he won't need it when I'm at work anyway (if he does, I'll make alternative arrangements) and he doesn't like the idea of me travelling in the old car.

If people want to suggest I'm just abusing the scheme to get myself a new car, they can quite frankly get stuffed. I would never abuse a system like this, and have decades of experiencing what it is like to be disabled, both from my partner's perspective and my own - I'm well on my way to qualifying for a Motability car myself.

Richie - While you seem very clear on this and I'm tempted to trust you, I do know enough about this to know you are wrong on several points. Mis-use of a Motability car is not illegal, it is merely a breech of their terms. It's like saying not paying your rent is illegal, it isn't. Mis-use of disabled tax is. This is the difference between not paying your rent, and not paying your council tax. It is not my intention to defraud anyone.

EDIT - Also just worked out what BB means - Blue Badge. We've had a Blue Badge for a few years now, and I would NEVER misuse it, and people who do so drive me insane. In fact, almost weekly I drive to the supermarket for my partner, though as he normally isn't with me, I park in a normal space. Walking past the disabled spaces though, it's always the case that more cars don't have BBs than do. I would NEVER abuse this myself and once again, I think you're getting ahead of yourself here and are assuming I'm some sort of fraudster out to damage disabled people's reputation.

Ames - Perhaps your idea is worth looking into instead. We do have the car at present, though perhaps there is some way of cancelling the lease. I am currently strictly adhering to the rules, hence my questions on here. For work I'm still using the old car.

Which came first the cart or the horse ?

Much of the political class see the disabled as lazy fiddlers & thieves on the make, because of money stolen or lost every year through fraud. This view is supported by an overwhelming proportion of the population. A sustained 2 year media programme designed by the No 10 'nudge unit' and their friends the 're-tops' led to a 6 year onslaught on benefit cuts which has ravaged the income of the disabled and infirm to the point where they can not function in care or in mobility terms. The disabled were themselves much to blame for this, read the open whining gimme gimme more and more green eyed greed in the older threads for yourself. I said then, all those years ago that the "disabled should put their own house in order - before someone else did it for them". Well fast forward to today and the IDS debacle, the cuts announced just last week would mean a further 370,000 disabled people would lost an average extra £3,500 a year on top of the cuts already made over the last 6 years. Tthe "disabled should put their own house in order - before someone else does it for them"

Then & Now

There were no instant checks, there are now, why do you think the posting on this subject died about that point ?. Mentioning Blue Badge was deliberate, the old cop-out is gone anyone of the thousand cops and 'permitted' officials can call up the digitised photo and see instantly its not a male but a female etc and their exact address. The very 'instant' and inarguable discrepancy then opens many options for what they call 'other inquiries'.

Find Out

You are right and I'm wrong. Yawn - I've heard it all before thousands of times on this sub-board, you are right and I'm wrong. Ask Motability + DVLA and find out. Oh yes you already said in your own words """ I'm also unsure about asking Motability - they might just cancel the lease if I start asking about using it for a commute or anything like that""" Everyone concocts a preferred but irrational immaculate loopholed defence for wrongdoing - test it with the authorities or maybe you will get to test it later in court.

sdfdsfsadas · 22 March 2016 at 4:55PM

I am not saying you are wrong about everything, you are almost 100% correct in everything you are saying. But the photo database used by ANPR cameras and the like is for the use of Blue Badges. My partner's photo is on that Blue Badge. A good system if you ask me. I assume you're also right in saying that system can be used to check the tax class. Must say, my partner didn't have to submit a photo when applying for disabled tax (I did the forms) so I'm a little unsure there. But let's just assume they're all linked.

What I am saying, is that breeching the terms of the Motability contract is NOT illegal, which you seem to think it is. This is why it is hard to believe everything you're saying.

Worth pointing out, once again, that despite everyone else saying "it's fine, don't worry about it, just use the car", I am still taking the advice of a man who clearly has a political agenda and has some of his facts wrong, precisely BECAUSE I am NOT trying to come up with "irrational immaculate loopholed defence for wrongdoing" - I am trying to do this by the book.

You say I already "know" I'm thinking of doing something wrong hence why I am worried about asking Motability. So you're saying that it - closed case, I know I'm in the wrong, I'm just trying to worm out of it. Not the case at all. To draw an analogy as best I can - Everyone would like to legally avoid tax where possible, and plenty do. But the tax system is very complicated, so something that seems like a good idea might also be illegal. One way to find out would be to ring HMRC and ask, but if it turns out it is illegal after all, they might throw an investigation on you and really mess you around and disrupt your business, even if you're not actually doing anything wrong.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying to stick to the letter of law.

Confuseddot · 22 March 2016 at 6:11PM

Not having the appropriate tax will result in fine, DVLA tend not to agree with some of the statements provided by motability about commuting to and from work.

Insurance companies will also use anything to get out of paying so if your car is taxed incorrectly then you may not get payout.

Confuseddot · 22 March 2016 at 6:13PM

maybe return car and go for one of the just add fuel deals ?

FBaby · 22 March 2016 at 7:09PM

The truth, however you are trying to fudge it is that you want to drive a nice new car without having to pay extra for it. That whole 'well I work and bring an income so it benefits the claimant' is a joke. Why not go to the extreme of saying 'if driving a brand new car makes me happy, then my wife is happy too so it benefits her'.

The way people try to twist entitlements to make them suits them is exactly what is the making of benefit bashers. It's reading posts like this that makes people shout that motability should be abolished, and however much I think that it was initially released with the best attention, I think too many people (even if still a minority) are seeing it as a benefit to them rather than to the disabled person.

Fraudulant use of Motability car?

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