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  • FIRST POST
    • Willywonga
    • By Willywonga 12th May 17, 9:23 AM
    • 1Posts
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    Willywonga
    Rejected. Twice. Why?
    • #1
    • 12th May 17, 9:23 AM
    Rejected. Twice. Why? 12th May 17 at 9:23 AM
    I am confused by how credit card application decisions are made.

    I have only been stoozing for three years now and have done so carefully. My first card was a Lloyds 0% Purchase card with a £12k limit, which I used the majority of. When that came to an end I applied for a Santander 0% (and 0 fee) BT card, with a £5,200 limit which I used to BT from the Lloyds and then paid down the remaining Lloyds debt and closed the card.

    Six months later I applied for another 0% purchase card with Lloyds, granted, this time with a £8k maximum limit. When Santander ended, I paid it down and closed it.

    Then I applied for a Tesco 0% purchase card which only gave me a limit of £3900 (which Iím still using). However my Lloyds card is coming to an end and my plan was to BT to another 0% card (with another provider).

    So I recently applied for a Sainsbury card Ė rejected. I then applied for a another (canít remember the provider) on the same day Ė rejected again. I have been forced to pay down the whole of the debt on the Lloyds card as I canít BT and don't want to aply for another for fear of being yet again rejected.

    My credit report was gleaming prior to these two rejected applications and it will now have left two black marks and I wonít be able to apply for another card. My total gross income is £55k / outgoings £25k.

    Why have I been rejected? When I was rejected my credit utilization rate was 78% - was this possibly the reason? If so, but I thought this was the point of stoozing?!

    How long should I now wait to apply for another card?

    Why did one provider give me £12k credit but another only £3,900?

    How long do rejected applications last on your credit file?

    How often does your credit file get updated? What am I doing wrong?

    How can I predict a) if I will be accepted and b) how much limit they will grant?

    Any advice would be appreciated.
Page 1
    • zx81
    • By zx81 12th May 17, 9:26 AM
    • 14,043 Posts
    • 14,729 Thanks
    zx81
    • #2
    • 12th May 17, 9:26 AM
    • #2
    • 12th May 17, 9:26 AM
    Limits will typically become lower as your available credit increases.

    Your utilisation will also be a concern
    • MallyGirl
    • By MallyGirl 12th May 17, 9:48 AM
    • 2,016 Posts
    • 6,829 Thanks
    MallyGirl
    • #3
    • 12th May 17, 9:48 AM
    • #3
    • 12th May 17, 9:48 AM
    Then I applied for a Tesco 0% purchase card which only gave me a limit of £3900 (which Iím still using). However my Lloyds card is coming to an end and my plan was to BT to another 0% card (with another provider).

    ...

    Why did one provider give me £12k credit but another only £3,900?
    Originally posted by Willywonga
    I have always found Tesco really mean with their limits. They gave me £4k last time just before Barclaycard gave me £18k.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 12th May 17, 10:48 AM
    • 2,816 Posts
    • 5,040 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #4
    • 12th May 17, 10:48 AM
    • #4
    • 12th May 17, 10:48 AM
    I am confused by how credit card application decisions are made.
    ...
    How can I predict a) if I will be accepted and b) how much limit they will grant?
    Originally posted by Willywonga
    You aren't alone in that!

    Looking at each company individually their processes will appear totally sane and rational. Looking as a consumer at the various companies together the whole system is random, irrational and insane. But it is a product of applying varying circumstances to processes with marginally different criteria that appear to produce random results.

    I've been rejected for a £200 credit limit increase but then offered a new card with £4.5k.

    I've been told I was a prime customer with a card waiting for me, then declined by the computer.

    I've been sent marketing emails for a card with a minimum income criteria, by a bank that knows my income is less.

    I've applied for a card online with assurances I'll get it, but been told to write via Royal Mail to appeal the subsequent decline.

    None of it makes any sense
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 12th May 17, 11:11 AM
    • 5,777 Posts
    • 5,652 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #5
    • 12th May 17, 11:11 AM
    • #5
    • 12th May 17, 11:11 AM
    How long do rejected applications last on your credit file?

    How often does your credit file get updated? What am I doing wrong?
    Originally posted by Willywonga
    The obvious answer to these questions is to check your credit files regularly, to see what they look like! You mention that your credit report was 'gleaming' earlier, which suggests you may already do this (with all three of the CRAs?), but if so, then you should know how credit searches are shown - they aren't listed as rejected anyway, all that'll be recorded is the fact that a credit search was performed, not the outcome, so no 'black marks' as such.

    I thought this was the point of stoozing?!
    Originally posted by Willywonga
    You should bear in mind that stoozing is effectively savvy consumers (mis)using the facilities offered by these companies in a way that minimises their revenue/profitability while maximising the amounts borrowed, so they are unlikely to be enthusiastic about it and may calibrate their algorithms to reject prospective customers who they believe to be stoozing, as there's nothing in it for the lenders....
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 12th May 17, 11:16 AM
    • 10,730 Posts
    • 56,062 Thanks
    edinburgher
    • #6
    • 12th May 17, 11:16 AM
    • #6
    • 12th May 17, 11:16 AM
    I have always found Tesco really mean with their limits. They gave me £4k last time just before Barclaycard gave me £18k.
    Originally posted by MallyGirl
    Sometimes there seems to be no reason behind these things. Barclaycard only gave me £3k, Tesco were much more generous to me at £5.5k.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 13th May 17, 2:40 AM
    • 2,070 Posts
    • 911 Thanks
    Ben8282
    • #7
    • 13th May 17, 2:40 AM
    • #7
    • 13th May 17, 2:40 AM
    You started off with a card with a 12k limit.
    After expiry of the interest free period on this card, you obtained a new card with a 5.2k limit.
    You then filled this card to the limit and closed the card with the 12k limit.
    In doing this your available credit dropped from 17.2k to 5.2k and your utilisation % jumped up to something close to 100%. NOT GOOD
    Then you got another card with an 8k limit, transferred the balance from the card with the 5.2k limit to it and promptly closed the card with the 5,2k limit. At this point you could have had 13.2k available credit, but through your actions in closing the 2nd card reduced that to 8k. NOT GOOD
    And so on.
    What are you doing wrong?
    Keep closing accounts for a start. What is the average age of your credit accounts? Mine is a 3 figure number in months. What is yours?
    Always transferring, never repaying, the 0% balance.
    If your income is what you claim, what are you doing with your money so that you are constantly in debt?. At some point your debt will need to actually be repaid. You can't keep transferring it indefinitely.
    Yes 78% utilisation is very high. A highly probable reason for rejection.
    Rejected applications are not shown on your credit files, only the hard searches to show an application was made.
    Now that you have paid off the balance, keep using the cards for purchases repaying in full every month. Forget about stoozing or incurring 0% debt for a while. And stop closing accounts!!!
    Last edited by Ben8282; 13-05-2017 at 2:43 AM.
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 14th May 17, 8:11 AM
    • 10,730 Posts
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    edinburgher
    • #8
    • 14th May 17, 8:11 AM
    • #8
    • 14th May 17, 8:11 AM
    Why are you talking about debt? OP has only mentioned stoozing
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 14th May 17, 8:32 AM
    • 4,673 Posts
    • 8,767 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    • #9
    • 14th May 17, 8:32 AM
    • #9
    • 14th May 17, 8:32 AM
    Stoozing is still debt isn't it? The credit card company doesn't know whether the money is being saved or spent. I would also say keep a credit card open, usually the one you had longest. Using up almost the whole of your available credit means you are more likely to be rejected as does continually opening and closing credit card accounts.

    Affecting my credit record is one of the reasons why I never got into stoozing plus savings rates are so low I am sceptical that significant money can be made once bt fees are taken into account. I would wait 6 months before applying for anything else.
    5 weeks to go until early retirement in December . Debt free and mortgage free.

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • ceredigion
    • By ceredigion 14th May 17, 9:26 AM
    • 2,377 Posts
    • 2,961 Thanks
    ceredigion
    Affecting my credit record is one of the reasons why I never got into stoozing plus savings rates are so low I am sceptical that significant money can be made once bt fees are taken into account. I would wait 6 months before applying for anything else.
    Originally posted by enthusiasticsaver

    Yes the returns are small, but there is never a need to pay a BT fee. But look at it another way. I am using the banks money to offset the effect of inflation on my own cash assets. Effectively allowing me to stand still in real terms and the bank taking the hit. Compound this over many years and all of a sudden ,stoozing has little to do with making a return.
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 14th May 17, 1:00 PM
    • 10,730 Posts
    • 56,062 Thanks
    edinburgher
    Ben8282 appears to have grasped the wrong end of the stick entirely enthusiastic saver
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 14th May 17, 3:48 PM
    • 4,673 Posts
    • 8,767 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    Why have I been rejected? When I was rejected my credit utilization rate was 78% - was this possibly the reason? If so, but I thought this was the point of stoozing?!

    .
    Originally posted by Willywonga
    It is not in the banks interest for anyone to be stoozing. Therein lies your problem. Your credit record probably reflects quite clearly what you are doing (constant opening and closing of accounts), the banks are not making money out of you and are quite within their rights to reject applications from people doing such as you are. 78% suggests you are using your credit limit almost to its full potential so you may not have met the affordability criteria either.
    5 weeks to go until early retirement in December . Debt free and mortgage free.

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 14th May 17, 7:40 PM
    • 2,070 Posts
    • 911 Thanks
    Ben8282
    Ben8282 appears to have grasped the wrong end of the stick entirely enthusiastic saver
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    Really? Actually I think I have grasped the right end of the stick.
    This newbie with a username which sounds like a payday loan company who has never returned to the thread after making his one and only post has opened and closed so many accounts and transferred this balance so many times over the 3 years that he has allegedly been stoozing that he cannot possibly have made any profit whatsoever on this so-called stooze. In fact with all the bt fees he must have paid he has clearly made a loss.
    Reading the OP it would appear that he opens accounts gets a very short bt period, probably something like 6 months, pays the fee and at the end of the short bt period pays another fee to transfer the balance again. This looks much more like debt than stoozing to me.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 14th May 17, 11:12 PM
    • 1,107 Posts
    • 861 Thanks
    TheShape
    Affecting my credit record is one of the reasons why I never got into stoozing plus savings rates are so low I am sceptical that significant money can be made once bt fees are taken into account. I would wait 6 months before applying for anything else.
    Originally posted by enthusiasticsaver
    I don't expect to be remortgaging or needing any new credit (other than a credit card for stoozing) so don't worry greatly about the impact of stoozing on my credit file.

    As to whether it's worth it, it may depend on where you put the stoozed funds. I borrowed approx £19k in March which allowed me to make a lump sum S&S investment, fill another BOS account and invest in p2p. I have an amount greater than my stoozed borrowing in current accounts and regular savers so depending on how you look at it I've either stoozed to current accounts/regular savers and diverted 'my own money' to p2p/S&S for potentially higher returns or I've stoozed to a mix of p2p/S&S/current accounts/regular savers.

    For me, stoozing has given me investment options earlier than if I'd had to earn the funds myself as it's allowed me to maintain a cash fund that allows me to feel comfortable enough to make other investments.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 14th May 17, 11:49 PM
    • 2,070 Posts
    • 911 Thanks
    Ben8282
    I don't expect to be remortgaging or needing any new credit (other than a credit card for stoozing) so don't worry greatly about the impact of stoozing on my credit file.

    As to whether it's worth it, it may depend on where you put the stoozed funds. I borrowed approx £19k in March which allowed me to make a lump sum S&S investment, fill another BOS account and invest in p2p. I have an amount greater than my stoozed borrowing in current accounts and regular savers so depending on how you look at it I've either stoozed to current accounts/regular savers and diverted 'my own money' to p2p/S&S for potentially higher returns or I've stoozed to a mix of p2p/S&S/current accounts/regular savers.

    For me, stoozing has given me investment options earlier than if I'd had to earn the funds myself as it's allowed me to maintain a cash fund that allows me to feel comfortable enough to make other investments.
    Originally posted by TheShape

    I don't disapprove of stoozing and agree that, for people such as yourself who appear to know what they are doing, money can be made.
    But Mr Average probably has no idea what S&S and p2p investments even are (I know p2p but S&S has lost me for example) and has no idea about how to start. This type of investment also involves risk; risk with borrowed money. Fine for you perhaps but not ok for Mr Average.
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 14th May 17, 11:50 PM
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    enthusiasticsaver
    The cash and/or the investments aren't yours though.

    Supposing you cannot get another 0% deal when the offer expires and it also happens to be at a time when the stock market has dipped? If you take your investments out you solidify losses (a definite no no in investing) or you take all your cash out, forsaking your regular saver bonuses.
    5 weeks to go until early retirement in December . Debt free and mortgage free.

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 14th May 17, 11:55 PM
    • 4,673 Posts
    • 8,767 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    I don't disapprove of stoozing and agree that, for people such as yourself who appear to know what they are doing, money can be made.
    But Mr Average probably has no idea what S&S and p2p investments even are (I know p2p but S&S has lost me for example) and has no idea about how to start. This type of investment also involves risk; risk with borrowed money. Fine for you perhaps but not ok for Mr Average.
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    S & S is stocks and shares. I invest in them too but with my own cash, not borrowed money.
    5 weeks to go until early retirement in December . Debt free and mortgage free.

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 15th May 17, 12:09 AM
    • 2,070 Posts
    • 911 Thanks
    Ben8282
    S & S is stocks and shares. .
    Originally posted by enthusiasticsaver
    Thanks. I should have been able to guess that.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 15th May 17, 12:34 AM
    • 1,107 Posts
    • 861 Thanks
    TheShape
    The cash and/or the investments aren't yours though.

    Supposing you cannot get another 0% deal when the offer expires and it also happens to be at a time when the stock market has dipped? If you take your investments out you solidify losses (a definite no no in investing) or you take all your cash out, forsaking your regular saver bonuses.
    Originally posted by enthusiasticsaver
    Of course the cash/investments are mine. I can choose to do what I wish with the cash and don't have to share investment gains with the bank. It's my money.

    Of course the debt is mine also and I was clear that I have over and above the stoozed amount available in cash and have planned to have enough instantly available cash to clear the balances as required should I be unable to transfer to further 0% offers.

    I did make the point that already having a decent sized cash pot made it debatable whether it was 'my' money or the 'stoozed funds' invested.
    • redux
    • By redux 15th May 17, 2:10 AM
    • 17,489 Posts
    • 22,338 Thanks
    redux
    The cash and/or the investments aren't yours though.

    Supposing you cannot get another 0% deal when the offer expires and it also happens to be at a time when the stock market has dipped? If you take your investments out you solidify losses (a definite no no in investing) or you take all your cash out, forsaking your regular saver bonuses.
    Originally posted by enthusiasticsaver
    Maybe the end of the 0% offer coincides with a regular saver account maturing.
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