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Results: Have you enquired about your Northern Rock CCA loan

Yes, I have been awarded compensation

3.57% • 1 votes

Yes, I have been advised there is no valid complaint

3.57% • 1 votes

Yes, I am awaiting a response from Northern Rock/NRAM

57.14% • 16 votes

No

35.71% • 10 votes

You may not vote on this poll

28 votes in total.

Page 2
  • GhIFA
    Hi everyone, I'm in the same position -£27k loan in 2005 as part of together mortgage, signed by both NR and myself. Paperwork clearly states subject to CCA 1997. I have not contacted NRAM yet as wanted to wait to see if I got a letter first, but nothing so far. Not sure where we all stand to be honest. If they do not treat our loans the same as the <£25k customers on the basis that our loans could never have been CCA protected and admit yet another mistake, what happens now?

    I certainly would not have entered into an agreement for an unregulated/unprotected loan, would you? And what happens moving forward as things may be ok now but what if you need to rely on the protection in the future? What a mess!!
    Originally posted by Chrisb80
    Just out of interest, at the time you entered into the agreement, what protection did you think you had on this part of the loan?
    I am an IFA. Any comments made on this forum are provided for information only and should not be construed as advice. Should you need advice on a specific area then please consult a local IFA.
    • bigbadwolf500
    • By bigbadwolf500 13th Dec 12, 8:44 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bigbadwolf500
    Welcome the the thread NorthernRockNewbie - lets see what the next few days bring first .... fingers crossed x

    If we hear nothing from NRAM - I'd certainly be willing to chip in for some legal advice
    Last edited by bigbadwolf500; 13-12-2012 at 8:47 PM.
  • shellyk6666
    We took out a £25K unsecured loan as part of our together mortgage in June 2007 but then increased it 3 months later to £30K. Do you think this will mean it is protected by the CCA because the original loan amount was not over the limit? I'm not holding my breath but I can't help but hope! What do you think??
  • Chrisb80
    Just out of interest, at the time you entered into the agreement, what protection did you think you had on this part of the loan?
    Originally posted by GhIFA

    The CCA regulates the way in which consumer credit licensees carry on business. For example, there are rules on advertising, pre-contract disclosure, credit agreements and post-contractual information. In addition, the Act confers certain rights on consumers, including in relation to withdrawal from a credit agreement, early settlement just to name a few. As most people taking out such loans as we did (not being legal experts) the CCA protection for me is piece of mind.

    I may be wrong but this is my view...
  • Jimtothejam
    Hi all, first time for me joining a forum but its a pretty significant event for all of us. I'm hoping beyond hope that there is some kind of financial redress after this but only time will tell. I feel a combination of naivety on my part when taking out my NR mortgage and receiving some terrible 'expert' financial advice in 2005. I have a feeling those with over £25000 unsecured loans will be brushed aside if NRAM feel they can get away with allowing unregulated amounts under regulated agreements pre 2008. One thing I do know is I will be keeping a very close eye on the situation over the coming weeks and months. Here's hoping those of us who really suffered after the financial crash have something positive on the horizon!
  • joeb78
    I'm another one in the same boat! My wife and I took out a Together Mortgage in 2007, with an unsecured part of £30,000 and the statement of "Fixed-sum loan agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974".

    I have just emailed NRAM and will see what they say!

    I'm sure I read somewhere yesterday that changes from fixed to standard variable rate (or similar) post 2008 on an existing loan may then automatically make it become regulated under the 2008 changes. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? (Ours was a stepped fix rate that changed rate in 2008 and 2009 and then reverted to standard variable in 2010).
  • claret_mike
    I have read the statement issued by the Treasury and have decided to contact the MP and Minister there to make them aware of the matter.

    I hold no hope as it will be my luck that I will fall outside of the criteria but here is what I have emailed..


    Dear Mr Javid

    Following your recent announcement on the issues identified at NRAM with some CCA regulated loans, I felt the need to write to you to make you aware of another potential irregularity with the paperwork that Northern Rock and would ask to see whether you are able to have this also reviewed as part of the ongoing review that is taking place?

    As I understand from research carried out, there seems to be a number of "together" mortgage clients who hold personal loans in excess of £25,000 that have had this loan "passed off" as a CCA 1974 regulated loan. Following the communications issued by NRAM, it has become very clear to a number of us (NRAM customers and taxpayers) that unregulated loans have been written as regulated loans. I am seeking clarification directly from NRAM whether these loans are being treated as regulated or not and whether they will be included in your review?

    I believe that these "grey area" loans should form part of your review because ultimately it is another example of an irregularity with the paperwork which has far wider reaching consequences and impact that simply missing a small amount of information off a statement or two. Customers have had this loan believing it was regulated and it seems as though legally it is not and as a result, they are forgotten about.

    I am sure that this review presents a great opportunity to clean the house with regards to all issues like this so hope that you can take on board my comments and consider what further actions you can take in assisting clarifying the situation for these customers.

    I have copied the Rt Hon Greg Clark in on this email as I understand his responsibilities include the area of financial services.


    Many thanks for your time and consideration in this matter.

    I have also emailed NRAM to seek clarification on how my loan is regulated (or not as it may be).

    I guess all we can do is see what happens - we could all get letters tomorrow or in the next few days... I think rather than paying a barrister, we should chuck a few quid at Martin to see what he can get out of them
    • lizards
    • By lizards 13th Dec 12, 9:27 PM
    • 219 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    lizards
    joeb - that's very interesting if it's true!

    I think we're all definitely in need of specialist legal advice. We'll see if any of us get letters over the next week I guess!

    Cross-posted - that's excellent Mike, good work! Would be good if Martin could look into it too - this has to be a pretty major thing, right?
  • Chrisb80
    I'm another one in the same boat! My wife and I took out a Together Mortgage in 2007, with an unsecured part of £30,000 and the statement of "Fixed-sum loan agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974".

    I have just emailed NRAM and will see what they say!

    I'm sure I read somewhere yesterday that changes from fixed to standard variable rate (or similar) post 2008 on an existing loan may then automatically make it become regulated under the 2008 changes. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? (Ours was a stepped fix rate that changed rate in 2008 and 2009 and then reverted to standard variable in 2010).
    Originally posted by joeb78

    I'm the same. Mine was a 5 year fixed from 2005 to 2010 when it reverted to the SVR. Where did you read this?
  • joeb78
    I'm the same. Mine was a 5 year fixed from 2005 to 2010 when it reverted to the SVR. Where did you read this?
    Originally posted by Chrisb80
    I'm not sure where I read it! I think it was on another forum from a year or two ago where someone was trying to pick through the clauses of the CCA. I'll have another look...
  • silky83
    this is a big topic of interest to me. me and my husband took out a together mortgage in 2007 with the loan being 28k. so i too am interested in how this turns out. even if they say we r not eligable and dont get a letter surely they r in breach of contract for letting us believe we are covered by cca? and if we are then why arent we included with those under 25k?
  • dvr80
    I've been sitting back and reading the forums on this issue.
    I too have emailed nram for clarification and will post up any reply i get.
    I have 26k outstanding from an original 30k unsecured together loan from 2007 with the docs also showing the cca line so it will be interesting how this pans out!
  • Refund me
    I posted this on the other thread, have added some more on it

    --------------

    Only a court can decide if the agreement that's headed regulated, when it was not, is unenforceable

    You could argue and say it is unenforceable as its a misrepresentation to the borrower of the protection available, but the court may only rule in your favour if you have not benefited from such an item of protection that would have been available to you - so basically if you have lost out from not having the protection.

    Is an interesting one for sure - I am sure they are looking at this now wondering what the best outcome for them is - refunding for all "together" unsecured loan interest amounts or only for those under 25k , risking the backlash of the non-regulated against it being sold as regulated part.

    You may have a case to answer if you have not have an item such as "time to pay" which is available to you on a regulated loan. I would suspect though that if you had got as far as court in relation to your debt then you would have had your documents reviewed by a legal expert who would have picked up on the incorrect wording. Added to that there is no guarantee that the court would rule in your favour.

    I do remember a case where the court ruled in the favour of the lender with from memory the argument that the loan count not be regulated due to the amount of it - this being the most important factor in the definition of what is regulated and what is not - overriding any documentation.

    I will try and find the document.

    I feel that the best you can hope for is that they refund the interest on these larger loans also - I am sure that for most that would keep them more than happy.
  • GhIFA
    The CCA regulates the way in which consumer credit licensees carry on business. For example, there are rules on advertising, pre-contract disclosure, credit agreements and post-contractual information. In addition, the Act confers certain rights on consumers, including in relation to withdrawal from a credit agreement, early settlement just to name a few. As most people taking out such loans as we did (not being legal experts) the CCA protection for me is piece of mind.

    I may be wrong but this is my view...
    Originally posted by Chrisb80
    And these were your thoughts at the time you entered the agreement?
    I am an IFA. Any comments made on this forum are provided for information only and should not be construed as advice. Should you need advice on a specific area then please consult a local IFA.
  • claret_mike
    Probably not at that immediate time but I would imagine that it was because he was being blindsided by some slick salesman with a title to make him/her sound like they knew what they were doing.

    On a more serious note, as a consumer, there was a trust placed within companies like NR that they were compliant and working within the rules. Clearly the queues we saw when the run started showed that there was trust there.

    You take out an agreement, you agree to abide by that agreement. I have met all my payments and are quite lucky in that I am overpaying to reduce my debt but in the same token, you expect the agreement you are entering into to be administered in the correct way.

    If the paperwork had UNREGULATED LOAN AGREEMENT written accross it, then I can imagine a lot more questions would have been asked and there would have probably been more "scrutiny" placed on adviser based sales to fully explain the consequences of not having the loan under the CCA 1974 rules.
    • jimmyay
    • By jimmyay 14th Dec 12, 3:54 AM
    • 113 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    jimmyay
    I also have one of these loans. The rate of interest after i delinked - got forced to another lender when NR stopped writing new business after they nearly went bust,has nearly killed me. If it wasnt for their negligence most of us would never have had to go on such punitive rates of interest. I feel in time most of the NR loans at punitive rates will be written off. 7 years later my mortgage, now with Nationwide,is half paid off due to the low IR. The unsecured NR part is at a monstrous 12% interest or something, despite me always paying on time and never presenting a single risk to to them. i pay hundreds a month to them but the balance never seems to go down. i feel i have been done a great injustice through no fault of my own.
    Last edited by jimmyay; 14-12-2012 at 3:56 AM.
    • Fizzy Fish
    • By Fizzy Fish 14th Dec 12, 7:52 AM
    • 43 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Fizzy Fish
    I've done some reading up on the change in CCA legislation, and my understanding is that an exclusion was included that means changes to interest rate do not put an existing unregulated loan into the regulated category - unless something more substantial like the amount of the loan was changed as well.

    I should caveat that I'm no legal expert though, so would be interested to know whether this is also the conclusion drawn by others.

    Have also emailed NR about my situation, and my MP in line with Mike's excellent note above.
  • rmart
    In our case when the house was sold we reduced the unsecured part from 28k to 10k, and they increased the interest rate on that to 12%, robbing sods !.

    So the amount owed was reduced and the interest rate increased but the paperwork was never changed.
    • Fizzy Fish
    • By Fizzy Fish 14th Dec 12, 9:07 AM
    • 43 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Fizzy Fish
    It seems to be down to whether the agreement can be considered to have been varied:

    2.14 An unregulated agreement can become regulated because of a variation made to it. This can happen when the parties make a further agreement which varies or supplements the earlier one. In such a case, the Act regards the earlier agreement as having been revoked and replaced by a new agreement which incorporates the terms of the earlier agreement. This new agreement may be regulated under the Act even if the previous agreement was unregulated.11

    Taken from the OfT's website about the CCA changes from 2008:
    http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft140.pdf

    So it's all about what constitutes a 'further agreement'.

    I was trying to find the article that I read previously about the interpretation of this not relating to interest rate changes, so that i could double-check this point, but haven't been able to do so. So I I can't say for sure that particular point has come from a reliable source.

    However I still think it is more than likely to be the case - the changes to my interest rate that took place when i moved the mortgage are in the T&Cs of my original agreement, so the agreement wasn't technically changed. I know this because i was horrified when I remortgaged and they jacked the unsecured loan rate up and desperately went through all the paperwork to check. And the feeling that you have been shafted/an idiot for not reading all of the fine print, and wondering HTF you are going to ever get out of this situation stays firmly fixed in the memory for a long time...

    So I suspect that unless you changed your actual agreement (probably involving new paperwork), it doesn't come into the category of a new/varied, regulated agreement.
    Last edited by Fizzy Fish; 14-12-2012 at 9:11 AM.
  • GhIFA
    In our case when the house was sold we reduced the unsecured part from 28k to 10k, and they increased the interest rate on that to 12%, robbing sods !.

    So the amount owed was reduced and the interest rate increased but the paperwork was never changed.
    Originally posted by rmart
    The paperwork probably didn't change as mentioned in the previous post, the change in interest rate was outlined in the terms and conditions of the original mortgage, so it wouldn't therefore have been unexpected as it had already been agreed to.
    I am an IFA. Any comments made on this forum are provided for information only and should not be construed as advice. Should you need advice on a specific area then please consult a local IFA.
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