Is this a polite rejection

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  • Manxman_in_exile
    Manxman_in_exile Posts: 8,380 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    edited 17 March 2018 at 5:13AM
    You're right.


    I think young people have been mis-sold degrees that have little or no value, I was listening to radio 5 last week and somebody arguing that graduates live longer than non-graduates. Eh? There might be some evidence of that for graduates from 50 years ago, but how can we possibly say for current graduates - when are they expected to die?


    Sell a degree blah blah.


    (sorry for typos but I can't sleep and am watching Paralympic ice hockey.


    Edit: Sitting skiing now - some athletes with real disabilities! Must go for a run tomorrow and remind myself how lucky I am...
  • Ja7188
    Ja7188 Posts: 336 Forumite
    First Anniversary
    2018d wrote: »
    I want to answer your questions but I'm not sure what you mean?

    So if Steve, who (as many people have pointed out) has been very pleasant[/I] to you and even paid you a compliment[/I], asks you to interview in a few months' time then you're probably going to reject it on the basis that he shouldn't have "left you in limbo" and because the company didn't work to YOUR timescales?

    I don't dispute he has been pleasant and good at communicating with me, which he is obviously under no obligation to ... but for what????!!! There is no offer of a job or possible time frame, its not like it has been harsh and flat out said no and then tried to soften the blow with being politely signing off. I think if someone is starting out and eager, to the point of willing to work unpaid to secure experience, its better to be a bit upfront. As far as I see there is no real promise of anything, and if anything it is probably a standard rejection for now and the future. At least thats the impression I have got from the thread.

    even paid you a compliment,

    Im not sure which compliment you are referring to.... is it 'I admire your spirit'? because Im sure someone else on the thread said he was being sarcastic with that

    probably going to reject it on the basis that he shouldn't have "left you in limbo" and because the company didn't work to YOUR timescales?

    I might feel apprehensive about it. only because I have misunderstood so much of what he has said in this v. brief interaction. But you are right, there is a bit of my pride and ego that has been bruised here which I should find a way to overcome. Especially if someone bothers to keep me in mind.

    I really hope you're not trying to justify your viewpoint on the company that Steve works for (which pretty much everyone on here disagrees with)

    Really unclear what you mean about this, not disagreeing trying to understand

    Seriously, how can I make it any clearer? Steve IS being upfront with you - he's giving you all the information he can, and it is clearly not possible to give you any more for the reasons that I and others have stated.

    As for the 'compliment', personally I think that's probably what it is - but that's just my opinion and others who have replied have a different view - Steve is the only person who actually knows what he means.

    With respect, you absolutely do need to find a way to deal with rejection and not let it get to you - and you also need to work on how to best see the world through the eyes of others and understand their perspectives. Both of these skills will serve you well.

    Not sure what isn't clear about my last comment - but you've cut part of it off in your quote so not sure if you're read it all.

    For what it's worth, I actually think you've had a hard time on this thread. I do have some respect for you for what you've achieved - a Russell Group university degree isn't easy to get (I spent one term at one, but it consisted almost entirely of drinking and I dropped out!) and clearly it takes some guts to jack in a career and retrain - it's quite a leap of faith - but I think you need to take a good luck at the way you conduct yourself not to allow it to hold you back from achieving what you're capable of.

    Not sure if you're still reading this site, but if so - good luck!
  • theoretica
    theoretica Posts: 12,302 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary
    Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

    I'd like to see somebody do an economics degree that made "scientific" sense. (Or politics for that matter - Oh dear - we've had Cameron and Johnson!)
    Savvy_Sue wrote: »

    Never going to happen ... but then I think you knew that!

    Actually, talking to people who studied economics a lot of it makes sense to me in a social science and psychology way. Why do people do what they do, and why is it so often not a simple matter of calculating the financial numbers?

    Which I think is an illustration of the wider discussion, that it is possible to study any subject in an interesting and thought provoking way, or something with the same name in a trivial way.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,163 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Manxman_in_exile wrote: »
    You're right.


    I think young people have been mis-sold degrees that have little or no value, I was listening to radio 5 last week and somebody arguing that graduates live longer than non-graduates. Eh? There might be some evidence of that for graduates from 50 years ago, but how can we possibly say for current graduates - when are they expected to die?


    Sell a degree blah blah.


    (sorry for typos but I can't sleep and am watching Paralympic ice hockey.


    Edit: Sitting skiing now - some athletes with real disabilities! Must go for a run tomorrow and remind myself how lucky I am...
    The result of NuLab's "Education, Education, Education" con.
  • Manxman_in_exile
    Manxman_in_exile Posts: 8,380 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    prowla wrote: »
    The result of NuLab's "Education, Education, Education" con.


    I hate to say it, but I think you are right. Education is a "good" in itself - but it doesn't necessarily mean having a degree.


    I stopped voting labour when John Smith died and Blair took over. I hoped Gordon Brown would be better, but I think he was even worse than Blair!
  • Manxman_in_exile
    Manxman_in_exile Posts: 8,380 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    theoretica wrote: »
    Actually, talking to people who studied economics a lot of it makes sense to me in a social science and psychology way. Why do people do what they do, and why is it so often not a simple matter of calculating the financial numbers?

    Which I think is an illustration of the wider discussion, that it is possible to study any subject in an interesting and thought provoking way, or something with the same name in a trivial way.


    One of the reasons I don't like economics is because of all its assumptions. One being that people behave "rationally" to maximise their own benefit. In my experience that assumption is not true.


    There's an old chestnut about a group of people being stranded on a desert island with no supplies except a load of tinned food (but no means of opening it). One of the people (an economist) says, "Let's assume we have a tin opener..."!


    I also agree that you can study apparently trivial subjects in a serious manner, and that you can study serious subjects in a trivial way.


    30 years after graduating I did a work based diploma at a well-known HEI. It was all about format and following a marking scheme(?). Follow the scheme and you'd pass. Academic content no longer seemed to matter. Just tick the boxes...it's easier that way.
  • theoretica
    theoretica Posts: 12,302 Forumite
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    Manxman_in_exile wrote: »
    One of the reasons I don't like economics is because of all its assumptions. One being that people behave "rationally" to maximise their own benefit. In my experience that assumption is not true.

    From my understanding you do economics a disservice, or at least well taught economics, as friends have definitely studied why people don't behave as would be rationally expected as part of economics courses. Just like physics and the jokes about assuming cows are spherical - assumptions can be useful, but so is looking at their limitations.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
  • Manxman_in_exile
    Manxman_in_exile Posts: 8,380 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    edited 17 March 2018 at 7:05PM
    theoretica wrote: »
    From my understanding you do economics a disservice, or at least well taught economics, as friends have definitely studied why people don't behave as would be rationally expected as part of economics courses. Just like physics and the jokes about assuming cows are spherical - assumptions can be useful, but so is looking at their limitations.


    Fair point.


    I suppose it may revolve around "well taught" and academic rigour. What do those two terms mean?


    Some might argue that a good degree should not be "taught" at all - that's what happens at school, not university.


    I don't dismiss economics entirely. I just think that for the last 39 years we've attributed greater importance and significance to it than it deserves. Economics, like politics, is not a "science", they're both just value systems - there is no "truth" in either of them. (But of course my value system is different from those of others!).


    I have no issues with the study of media, sociology or psychology - they are all valid because they study how people behave. And in fact, my area of study, the law, is exactly about how people behave.


    I just take issue with what I think is a prevalent view in the media (certainly BBC and some still existing print media) that economics is a science and makes sense.


    On a micro level it makes sense - I buy staple foods from the cheaper outlets. But on a macro level? Nobody knows!


    I think it was Stephen Jay Gould (a proper scientist) who criticised the Laffer curve on tax revenue against income. Economists of a certain mind set assume that the curve is a certain shape and that they know where on the curve we are. We don't know any of that! It makes theoretical and "pseudo science" sense, but ignores the unpredictable bit that people aren't rational. Otherwise we wouldn't have the NHS. Maybe Americans are more rational than us. Or maybe they aren't...


    Sorry if a bit rambling but just back from pub watching the rugby - too many pints of Adnam's!


    EDIT: Not having a personal go at you theoretica - I'm sure if we met we'd have a good discussion!
  • 2018d
    2018d Posts: 35 Forumite
    edited 3 April 2018 at 8:07AM
    :lovethougAt the risk of re-opening Pandora's box to post this update from last Wed

    Hi Sophia. Are you around on 19 April to come into our xyzzzzz for an interview?
    Best Steve

    Hi Steve.
    Yes, definitely.Thanks for this and find attached updated cv. What time suits?
    Best Sophia

    His operations team phoned me to schedule it

    p.s. PAID POSITION
  • 2018d
    2018d Posts: 35 Forumite
    Ja7188 wrote: »
    Seriously, how can I make it any clearer? Steve IS being upfront with you - he's giving you all the information he can, and it is clearly not possible to give you any more for the reasons that I and others have stated.

    As for the 'compliment', personally I think that's probably what it is - but that's just my opinion and others who have replied have a different view - Steve is the only person who actually knows what he means.

    With respect, you absolutely do need to find a way to deal with rejection and not let it get to you - and you also need to work on how to best see the world through the eyes of others and understand their perspectives. Both of these skills will serve you well.

    Not sure what isn't clear about my last comment - but you've cut part of it off in your quote so not sure if you're read it all.

    For what it's worth, I actually think you've had a hard time on this thread. I do have some respect for you for what you've achieved - a Russell Group university degree isn't easy to get (I spent one term at one, but it consisted almost entirely of drinking and I dropped out!) and clearly it takes some guts to jack in a career and retrain - it's quite a leap of faith - but I think you need to take a good luck at the way you conduct yourself not to allow it to hold you back from achieving what you're capable of.

    Not sure if you're still reading this site, but if so - good luck!

    Thank you and you were right:easter::A
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